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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#501

Post by nonethewiser »

okay_dude_321 wrote: post #311
okwubodu wrote: post #261

The second order effects of affirmative action's repeal are going to be very entertaining. You can get a sneak peek by taking a look at the student body at a school like UT Austin where, by law, 75% of students must be in-state and automatically admitted according to class rank (GPA). https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile You'll notice that when comparing Harvard and UT's student bodies to the US and…

Quoted post unavailable.

> I don't know, it's definitely some fairy thinking on behalf of the plaintiffs. Nothing will change. You'd have to be colossally fucking stupid, as an Asian kid, to think that these Republican motherfuckers are doing this for the benefit of Asians.

They aren't doing it for the benefit of Asians. They aren;t doing it at all. The Supreme Court would be doing it to enforce laws against racism.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#502

Post by usaar333 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #497
gnicholas wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Supreme Court is not deciding anything with regard to sex-based discrimination right now. I would be surprised if it even mentioned anything in dicta (non-binding comments not necessary to the holding) about this topic. Also, if/when the question comes up, there is a different standard for sex-based discrimination than race-based. The former is subject to intermediate scrutiny, whereas the latter is subject (in g…

The ruling almost certainly would include sex because it's part of the same law that protects against racial discrimination. Title VI of the civil rights act specifically protects these plus religion and nationality. If it applies to race (and it obvious does) it applies to all of them. It's honestly astounding that anyone finds this racism either moral or legal. It's precisely the same thing that the civil rights ac…

Nope. Sex is exempt from discrimination protections by law to allow same-sex colleges. (Public colleges cannot consider sex, however).

See https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2891107

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#503

Post by paulryanrogers »

xyzzyz wrote: post #409
paulryanrogers wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced busing worked too. Got the money more evenly distributed and fostered healthier, more heterogeneous cultures in the schools. Parents just weren't ready for interracial marriage, and were terrified their kids would date 'other'.

> Parents just weren't ready for interracial marriage, and were terrified their kids would date 'other'. Do you think this is why black parents were mostly against forced busing?

I cannot find evidence that black parents opposed the busing, much less why. Can you point me to some evidence?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#504

Post by Manuel_D »

howinteresting wrote: post #489
MrMan wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if women are a minority doesnt that make a mockery of the term?

Minority isn't just numerical, it can also mean having a minority of power. For example, in South Africa Black people were (and still are in many ways) a minority even though they were a numerical majority.

One would be pretty hard-pressed to argue that women hold "minority of power. For several decades now, women have had higher college enrollment rates. And among the two youngest generations, the gender pay gap has actually reversed with women out-earning men [1]. One could very well make the argument that discrimination favoring women isn't affirmative action, but rather "punching down" so to speak.

1. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-e...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#505

Post by Izkata »

sublinear wrote: post #309
okwubodu wrote: post #261

The second order effects of affirmative action's repeal are going to be very entertaining. You can get a sneak peek by taking a look at the student body at a school like UT Austin where, by law, 75% of students must be in-state and automatically admitted according to class rank (GPA). https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile You'll notice that when comparing Harvard and UT's student bodies to the US and…

I think there's a bit more to this. A lot of men simply don't need a degree when they take up the family business, go to trade school, or start a military career and that's fairly common in the south. I wouldn't call most of those guys disadvantaged. Drop out rates for the disadvantaged can be high as well regardless of affirmative action getting them in. The difficulties are cultural and I agree that making this sit…

It also depends significantly on where you're talking about. At my college, my class was about 85% male and 15% female. Looks like last year they managed to get it to 68% male and 32% female.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#506

Post by ChainOfFools »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #151
kenjackson wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Everyone likes to think they made it on their own. The guy who inherited a multi-million dollar business thinks he has had no more real advantage than then guy who was raised in an orphanage in Uganda. While I firmly believe that this privilege exists, you just can't legislate based on it, because you'll get n…

>And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. It's because the privilege is being more wealthy, not being white. If the privilege only applies to rich whites and also applies to rich Asians and blacks then it's not white privilege but simply privilege. >And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Have you read any CRT "scholars?" I have, and they are sickening.

ironically CRT was popularized (I want to say developed, but cant check refs right now) by two guys, one white and the other Japanese.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#507

Post by nonethewiser »

briHass wrote: post #207
etempleton wrote: post #110

Part of the American dream is that the feeling that there is no rigid social class. Everyone is a millionaire down on their luck. You only need to work harder or be more clever—ideally both. To some extent, it is true. Realistically, however, it is rare to move more than one or two income brackets from where your parents were when they were your age. Race in America, however, is fraught. The history of racism is rece…

> Realistically, however, it is rare to move more than one or two income brackets from where your parents were when they were your age. You state that like it's a bad thing. If you can bump a bracket or two per generation, 2 generations can take you from near-penniless to upper-middle class.

Not that big of a stretch for that to happen in 1 generation honestly.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#508

Post by ikt »

Vecr wrote: post #479
imgabe wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the goal of a nursing school to provide the best possible nurses to the healthcare industry? If we assume that: Whatever merit based metrics the school uses to determine admission are predictive of eventual performance and that men are admitted with lower performance on these metrics than some women Then removing the affirmative action should result in the school graduating nurses who perform better, right? Why…

I suppose one argument is that men in general are stronger, and it's probably a good idea to have strong nurses around, especially with the current obesity rates. I'm absolutely making things up though, not sure if any studies on that kind of thing have been done recently.

True but if female nurses are having issues lifting patients that would then be an opportunity for private enterprise to invent machines/tools that assist with this

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#510

Post by randomdata »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #462
sublinear wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a bit more to this. A lot of men simply don't need a degree when they take up the family business, go to trade school, or start a military career and that's fairly common in the south. I wouldn't call most of those guys disadvantaged. Drop out rates for the disadvantaged can be high as well regardless of affirmative action getting them in. The difficulties are cultural and I agree that making this sit…

This sounds like the argument that women don’t need degrees because they are just housewives or secretaries

As if a man in this day of age would let a woman into his kitchen to make him a sandwich without a degree. One needs qualifications to show ability.
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