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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#421

Post by kvathupo »

One of the most pernicious consequences of this fixation on race is the definition of a person by an arbitrary social construct. Although they all check the same box, they have very different experiences and cultural backgrounds:

* Black descendents of slaves vs African immigrants [1]

* Chinese Americans vs Hmong Americans (a higher poverty rate than Black Americans! [2])

* A Korean who grew up in Koreatown LA vs one who grew up in Utah

* A Boston Brahmin vs an impoverished White Virginian whose family members were targeted by eugenic boards

That said, Affirmative Action can reasonably make those from marginalized groups feel more welcome. In elementary school for example, I felt very out place among the largely affluent members of my accelerated math class. By contrast, I related much more to the mischievous truants who would later go on to be low-level criminals.

[1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/us/top-colleges-take-more...

[2] - https://tcf.org/content/commentary/misleading-data-policies-...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#422

Post by mushbino »

There has been a focus on race from the very beginning of the country. The entire point is to prevent class solidarity. The owner class has it, the working class does not and that's by design.

"If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” -Lyndon B. Johnson

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#423

Post by gausswho »

steveBK123 wrote: post #396
ameister14 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I completely agree about bail reform, I think you may have a misconception about prison populations (people actually convicted.) Of the roughly 1 million people incarcerated in state prisons, over 60% are there for violent crimes. About 3.8% are in prison for drug possession - about 40,000. So yes, too many, but not 1 in 150. Now, 1 in 5 people are in jail for some kind of drug offense, but that's not simple po…

Yes, anyone who has walked around NYC in the last 10 years and thinks that theres some sort of mass incarceration of marijuana users is delusional. The smell is basically on any block on any given day, and theres open selling of it from unlicensed mobile dispensaries. Pretending the jails are filled with non-violent simple drug offenders is someone either ill informed or not wanting to have a serious conversation. Ei…

If anything, the tally encompassing violent crime overcounts. See myth #4 at https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html

Agreed that if speedy trials were a thing, the local jail and bail reform problem would be greatly reduced. But there has been some refuted talking points around someone commiting 5 or 9 (or whatever made up number) of multiple distinct crimes while awaiting trial. If it happens it's exceedingly rare. Please link me to them if you find them.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#424

Post by tootie »

etempleton wrote: post #110

Part of the American dream is that the feeling that there is no rigid social class. Everyone is a millionaire down on their luck. You only need to work harder or be more clever—ideally both. To some extent, it is true. Realistically, however, it is rare to move more than one or two income brackets from where your parents were when they were your age. Race in America, however, is fraught. The history of racism is rece…

The article specifically calls out legacy admissions and other non-academic preferences for white students. There was an article just recently about fencing being a very expensive sport to participate in and one the generates a lot of college scholarships.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#425

Post by dools »

ETH_start wrote: post #255
cocacola1 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cold comfort to the near-penniless and penniless.

Real life is filled with disappointments and limitations, even with the best social structures in place. The false promise of a social revolution that provides instant wealth and salvation for all is used by populists to gain power, but any attempt to realize this promise leads to worse outcomes for the public.

Involuntary unemployment is the single biggest cause of poverty in developed economies and is a policy choice, not a limitation

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#426

Post by ClumsyPilot »

barelysapient wrote: post #385
cocacola1 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cold comfort to the near-penniless and penniless.

Huh. I guess your attitude isn't shared by the two plus million people a year, who literally risk life and limb crossing our boarders, for a shot at being an undocumented alien.

So by thus argument we have nothing to improve in this country untill standards of living sink to the level of North Korea and finally noone will be willing to immigrate

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#427

Post by yieldcrv »

SamPatt wrote: post #414

I'm not really bothered by a handful of elite universities which are only attended by wealthy and connected people. Why is this a problem? Other schools exist which are accessible to people without wealth and connections. The colleges can let in whoever they want or don't want. We don't need all of them to be an accurate representation of society at large. Plenty of other institutions in society are also not represen…

case in point: Harvard has existed for nearly 400 years before having to deal with a couple decades of the general population thinking genpop needs Ivy League. Harvard will exist for another 400 years after genpop re-invents trade schools or the private sector finds another way to sort for employees.

It's just literally not the school's problem. We've wasted many cycles and divided society by pretending like it is.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#428

Post by scarby2 »

coyotespike wrote: post #187

Here in Texas, any student from the top 10% of their high school is guaranteed a place at the flagship University of Texas at Austin. This is widely understood to be a form of affirmative action. Naturally, high schools in underprivileged areas - rural or urban - will produce students who are nowhere nearly as prepared as students from elite or wealthy schools. We ignore that difference as a policy matter. Top 10% is…

can you game this system by moving to a worse area? If you're rich and give your child all the support they need they're almost bound to be in the top 10%.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#429

Post by MichaelCollins »

jessaustin wrote: post #415
MichaelCollins wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't just not provide lunch to e.g. a 7yo who lost her money. Right, and they don't. I forgot my lunch money frequently as a kid. The school always fed me anyway, after taking down my name to have a chat with my parents (to inquire if I needed to be signed up for free lunches, and to collect the debt since my parents could easily afford it.) They won't let you skip lunch.

Sure, but you're describing a complication that doesn't exist if the district just feeds everybody. I'm not saying that this is always the right decision for a particular district, just that many districts outside California have made it.

I'm not saying that feeding everybody is a bad idea. I support it actually. I'm saying that kids aren't going hungry at school in states other than California. If California solved any problem, it was only reducing the administrative costs of figuring out who needs free lunches. But everybody would be getting fed anyway, one way or the other.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#430

Post by gausswho »

ameister14 wrote: post #337
gausswho wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the DA said on the subject: "Two days after being sworn in, Alvin Bragg shared a memo with staff Monday noting that his office will not prosecute low-level offenses like marijuana misdemeanors, refusal to pay for public transportation fare, prostitution and resisting arrest, unless given alongside a felony charge. Instead, they would be offered a community-based diversion program." Does that sound unreasonable?…

While I completely agree about bail reform, I think you may have a misconception about prison populations (people actually convicted.) Of the roughly 1 million people incarcerated in state prisons, over 60% are there for violent crimes. About 3.8% are in prison for drug possession - about 40,000. So yes, too many, but not 1 in 150. Now, 1 in 5 people are in jail for some kind of drug offense, but that's not simple po…

It is much closer to 2 million those who are incarcerated with about 400,000 of those from drug possession. Less than half for violent offenses and that's probably an overcount.

I mentioned in 1 in 150 Americans because that's the ratio of 2 million to ~300 million of the US population.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html

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