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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#381
post #2

How do you determine the class of student being admitted?

Many people have given answers to this very good question. But I'm going to ask another: WHY does the admission process need to take into account the social class of the student? - Fairness? College admissions at Ivy Leagues are not a fair process. It advantages legacies, donors. - Diversity? Then why not also account for race or national origin too? - An attempt to fix the inequities of US society? Why do this at th…

> That's why it has mostly rich kids but also a few poor ones to make it look like it's an egalitarian place.

The way I see it, the admissions design goal for prestigious universities is to ensure that the smartest students in the country and the richest students in the country get the same indistinguishable diploma - their diploma - and that way they sustain and reinforce both their prestige and funding.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#382

Class can be a big part of racism--often what appears to be racism is really more about class. There are many people who look down on anyone they perceive to be "low class", regardless of race, and who will accept people of other races if they perceive them to be "high class". In areas where the lower classes are over-represented by racial minorities, this can look like racism, when classism is much more the culprit.

I’m in the top 10% of income percentile. But I still got looked at suspiciously as a Black person living in a county that’s 3% Black and as recently as the late 80s was a famous “Sundown town” ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eYKQdPMeJjk ) I once took my team to lunch and the waitress asked would we be on one check or separate, I spoke up and said one, started reaching for my wallet and she still handed the check to t…

> if I walk into a convenience store with a visible gun in an open carry state and a “lower class” White person does the same and a policemen happens to be in the store, who do you think will be harassed?

Presumably neither of you since in this straw-man neither party has done anything wrong

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#383
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race wars have been used to obfuscate a class war. Historically minorities were prevented from being capital owners and as that changed aristocrats appealed to skin color while also routinely sweeping the legs out from under poor whites as they still do today, after enraging them stupid shit like tan suits and public protests. Thanks to inflation, moving one or two income brackets is closer to staying in the same pla…

> Historically minorities were prevented from being capital owners [...] That overlooks the elephant in the room: land ownership.

Capital is used here as a euphemism for land ownership. Net worth being mathematical inference of how well land owner “capitalizes” on the possession of land.

Other asset classes came along because, well, useful land is finite, and to create new wealth holders to act as missionaries for the US dollar. “Yeah even this trash is worth money in the US!”

Valuations are arbitrary numerical assessments based upon the whims of the assessors (assignment of currency value to stuff is a social tradition; there is no science that suggests the universe values any bit of itself what with entropy ripping the universes stuff apart), and routinely inflated to validate investors past decision to “buy into” Murica.

Biology being largely unchanged in centuries (in a meaningful way given the context here), the issues in our culture can easily be assigned to political corruption as usual. All the high talk about separation of powers is laughable as DC pols rub elbows at private social events, discussing not systemic change for the public benefit but how to veil graft as justifiable given their intimate connection to our political norms.

Simple really. Most white collar crime is still the same old “deflect, project, until we can change the rules” as policing is conveniently unfunded.

The mathematical gap between classes must be maintained! Or Sauron himself will emerge from the lava of Mt Doom or some shit.

I say we post up at home, stop going to work except to maintain our communities locally, make Jamie Dimon and co knock on every door in the US looking for rent. But I’m weird that way. Except for 2A, I really lean into progressive doctrine, which often aligns with conservative doctrine but media intentionally stokes this stupid culture war to obfuscate it.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#384

The second order effects of affirmative action's repeal are going to be very entertaining. You can get a sneak peek by taking a look at the student body at a school like UT Austin where, by law, 75% of students must be in-state and automatically admitted according to class rank (GPA). https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile You'll notice that when comparing Harvard and UT's student bodies to the US and…

The Supreme Court is not deciding anything with regard to sex-based discrimination right now. I would be surprised if it even mentioned anything in dicta (non-binding comments not necessary to the holding) about this topic.

Also, if/when the question comes up, there is a different standard for sex-based discrimination than race-based. The former is subject to intermediate scrutiny, whereas the latter is subject (in general) to strict scrutiny.

So it is plausible that the Court would determine that some sex-based discrimination is acceptable, and simultaneously determine that no race-based discrimination is acceptable.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Realistically, however, it is rare to move more than one or two income brackets from where your parents were when they were your age. You state that like it's a bad thing. If you can bump a bracket or two per generation, 2 generations can take you from near-penniless to upper-middle class.

Cold comfort to the near-penniless and penniless.

Huh. I guess your attitude isn't shared by the two plus million people a year, who literally risk life and limb crossing our boarders, for a shot at being an undocumented alien.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, it'll be awesome. In the short term, the few black kids and women who end up in engineering will get respect for making it into the program. And, hopefully a few years later, they'll no longer be looked at as diversity hires.

> they'll no longer be looked at as diversity hires Only racist losers assume I'm a diversity hire. And I'd actually rather they seethe at the "diversity hire" who just happens to somehow magically drive high-impact projects at every company he's ever worked at culminating in a career that's seen him work on everything from some of the most used apps in the world to self-driving cars. For that particular brand of los…

No post body was provided.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should read Robert Caro’s biographies of LBJ. The destitution and most importantly shame that he experienced as a boy shaped him, both in the amazing way he was able to seize control of the Senate and defeat the racist reactionaries who mentored him, and in the negative way that he embraced and wielded unbridled power and corruption.

Completely unironically, I've been looking for a few thousand pages of biography worth reading.

Lol few years ago I got LBJ's from local library and made sincere effort to read through - it was humongous. I could not carry on after a week.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My associations are mostly neutral. It can even be positive in certain contexts, like "It was a privilege to meet him".

Even then, it's not entirely positive, is it? It's essentially saying 'It was an honor to meet him;' that could mean that you were undeserving, or simply that it was something unusual that most people didn't get to do; if it were common, it wouldn't be a privilege, would it? In the thread's context, usually it's associated with not granting the privilege to someone else, as well - you have a privilege that others do…

I agree that it denotes an imbalance.

I also agree that terms like "white privilege" are intended as criticism. However I don't see them as criticism of the individual who has the privilege, but rather of the society whose circumstances gave them that privilege. The term is an attempt to promote systems thinking.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I believe there is belief that Harvard is accepting C-students over asians A+ students I think the reality is much closer; they are rejecting students with perfect scores and accepting students who scored in the 98th percentile. You don't need to speculate, the gap is more like 99th vs 93rd percentile: "Asian-Americans admitted to Harvard earned an average SAT score of 767 across all sections. ... African-Ame…

Point being racial discrimination is acceptable so long as there is some plausible deniability

Can we just stop with these bullshit word games? I'm so tired.

Describing a form of legal discrimination (in this case, affirmative action) as "racial discrimination" is not an argument. Or even an invitation to discussion.

There are major problems with policies like affirmative action. But smirking and saying "But... but you said racial discrimination is BAD! But then you DO THE RACIAL DISCRIMINATION. So YOU BAD!" is so tiresome.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way a survey question is phrased can dramatically affect the responses. Without references, I assume some cherry picking and loaded phrasing here.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/04/26/u-s-public-...

My guess is most people don't want to say yes to _everything_ on a survey because it's equivalent to not answering. So it's unsurprising that this would come out low when lumped in with academics. When asked straight up about race I'd imagine the response would be stronger. But of course that's just a hypothesis.
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