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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#351

Post by daxelrod »

ameister14 wrote: post #326
daxelrod wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe "privilege" is a negative word? Also, assuming you mean Robin DiAngelo, what of hers have you read? She's pretty clear in both White Fragility and Nice Racism in advocating against "constant, deliberate, self-flaggelation" because they center the person doing it and take energy away from productive action.

Not the person you were replying to, but do you have positive associations with the word "privilege?"

My associations are mostly neutral. It can even be positive in certain contexts, like "It was a privilege to meet him".

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#352

Post by mcguire »

kenjackson wrote: post #54
chrischattin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Nobody wants to think their success was the result of an unfair arbitrary advantage.

And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Everyone likes to think they made it on their own. The guy who inherited a multi-million dollar business thinks he has had no more real advantage than then guy who was raised in an orphanage in Uganda. While I firmly believe that this privilege exists, you just can't legislate based on it, because you'll get n…

And yet, at the same time, "at least I'm not black."

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#353

Post by gort19 »

pessimizer wrote: post #82

It's focused on race, but not in a nice way. It's been arguing about chattel slavery for 200 years, had a civil war over it, and has been busy ever since trying to decide where racial minorities should live and work, and if slaves turned out of plantations with empty pockets were ever at a disadvantage, or if they just fail to have "merit." It's obsessed with race, which is why Affirmative Action and diversity quotas…

> Surveys show that majorities of African-Americans, Californians, Democrats and Hispanics all oppose the use of race in college admissions (and in other areas).

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#354

Post by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung »

feet wrote: post #285
TEP_Kim_Il_Sung wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having both a mother and father at home while growing up is one of the premier biological indicators of future success. Wealth helps, sure, but it's very easily lost if you grow up without perspective.

My point was this: Is a cell deterministic? Is the physics on which cells operate deterministic? From my understanding, yes What does that mean for neurons? Those must be deterministic, which means that the complex organisms which cells create are also deterministic. Their behaviors is entirely deterministic

Sufficiently complex systems take on a life of their own. A rock rolling down a hill is deterministic. That same rock rolling down the hill a thousand times, has a statistical distribution pattern.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#355

Post by mcguire »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #151
kenjackson wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Everyone likes to think they made it on their own. The guy who inherited a multi-million dollar business thinks he has had no more real advantage than then guy who was raised in an orphanage in Uganda. While I firmly believe that this privilege exists, you just can't legislate based on it, because you'll get n…

>And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. It's because the privilege is being more wealthy, not being white. If the privilege only applies to rich whites and also applies to rich Asians and blacks then it's not white privilege but simply privilege. >And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Have you read any CRT "scholars?" I have, and they are sickening.

So you're saying that a poor white family has the same disadvantages as an equally poor black family?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#356

Post by cuteboy19 »

duvenaud wrote: post #305
nemothekid wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the Ivies will move to a similar system in the wake of the current SCOTUS case. AFAICT, the ivies don't have a problem with filling their graduating class. I believe a place like Harvard even considering the top 10% of students would increase the applicant pool. I'm reciting these numbers from memory, but apparently the size of the incoming class at Harvard is roughly 2,000 students, but there are ~5,000 appl…

> While I believe there is belief that Harvard is accepting C-students over asians A+ students I think the reality is much closer; they are rejecting students with perfect scores and accepting students who scored in the 98th percentile. You don't need to speculate, the gap is more like 99th vs 93rd percentile: "Asian-Americans admitted to Harvard earned an average SAT score of 767 across all sections. ... African-Ame…

Point being racial discrimination is acceptable so long as there is some plausible deniability

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#358

Post by tzs »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #151
kenjackson wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Everyone likes to think they made it on their own. The guy who inherited a multi-million dollar business thinks he has had no more real advantage than then guy who was raised in an orphanage in Uganda. While I firmly believe that this privilege exists, you just can't legislate based on it, because you'll get n…

>And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. It's because the privilege is being more wealthy, not being white. If the privilege only applies to rich whites and also applies to rich Asians and blacks then it's not white privilege but simply privilege. >And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Have you read any CRT "scholars?" I have, and they are sickening.

> It's because the privilege is being more wealthy, not being white. If the privilege only applies to rich whites and also applies to rich Asians and blacks then it's not white privilege but simply privilege.

Whites get advantages that have nothing to do with being more wealthy.

For example, once in the '80s I was driving around the Los Angeles area around 3 AM (I had insomnia and decide to just drive around randomly, and maybe pick up a snack at a 7-11) when I got pulled over for having one of my tail lights out. I was driving a cheap car, had a full unkempt beard and long hair, was wearing a tie-dyed shirt, and was in my early 20s. Anyone who saw me would probably think druggie.

I gave him my license and told him the registration was in the glove compartment. He shone his light on the glove compartment while I opened it and dug the registration out from under the $1000 in $20 bills that it was under.

He asked me why I had so much cash.

I told him that I'd responded to a classified ad from someone selling a modem for $1000. I was meeting them later that day and that was the money to pay for it.

He gave my license and registration back, told me to get the tail light fixed, and let me go.

I have no confidence that if I had been a young black man driving a cheap car looking like a druggie at 3 AM with $1000 in small bills in the glove compartment that things would have been so hassle free.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#359

Post by civilized »

Spooky23 wrote: post #233
favorited wrote: post #196

I've always loved how succinctly LBJ put it: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Everyone should read Robert Caro’s biographies of LBJ. The destitution and most importantly shame that he experienced as a boy shaped him, both in the amazing way he was able to seize control of the Senate and defeat the racist reactionaries who mentored him, and in the negative way that he embraced and wielded unbridled power and corruption.

Completely unironically, I've been looking for a few thousand pages of biography worth reading.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#360

Post by seadan83 »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #151
kenjackson wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Everyone likes to think they made it on their own. The guy who inherited a multi-million dollar business thinks he has had no more real advantage than then guy who was raised in an orphanage in Uganda. While I firmly believe that this privilege exists, you just can't legislate based on it, because you'll get n…

>And this is why the term "white privilege" sells so poorly to whites. It's because the privilege is being more wealthy, not being white. If the privilege only applies to rich whites and also applies to rich Asians and blacks then it's not white privilege but simply privilege. >And why CRT is attacked so vigorously. Have you read any CRT "scholars?" I have, and they are sickening.

This would imply that "driving while black" is not a thing if you have an expensive car.

Counter-example: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-woma...

Another example indicating the dependent variable is not always wealth: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/michael-bennett-las-vega...

While that is anecdotal, the overall statistics of police stops based on race are damning. This is just in the realm of policing, let alone workplace social dynamics, education, and the list goes on. So while class and white privilege are a venn diagram, their overlap is not at all total.

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