Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 888 posts

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#321

Post by dumpsterdiver »

happyopossum wrote: post #105

It’s not ‘society’ that’s focused on race, it’s advantage-seeking politicians and journalists who live in a bubble that are. Race virtually never comes up in daily life for the rest of us…

The only period of time I witnessed open racial hostilities in real life was growing up in a small town. Nearly that entire group of teenagers (at the time) I knew who acted that way ended up struggling with drugs (they were already dabbling in hard drugs when the behavior began, around high school).

I'm not trying to excuse their behavior, I'm saying that in my experience the folks lashing out with racism who I grew up with had serious problems in their home lives that had nothing to do with race. I know every case is different, but anecdotally what I witnessed appeared to be either scapegoating, or learned behavior. Again, I'm only trying to explain what I saw, not excuse the behavior.

My point is that I don't think they actually hated other races (at least at first, I won't pretend to know what goes on in the mind of someone who lives in their own echo chamber for years), because quite frankly their experience with the races they spoke poorly about was extremely limited (I grew up in the frigid north, where most locals are either white or Alaska Native - I don't know why that is, but it is).

When that behavior first started in early high school, I think the few of us who parted ways from that group kind of brushed it off for awhile because... we didn't know what to say, I guess? Folks who by all accounts appeared to be reasonable and entertaining people only a year ago were suddenly dropping racial slurs openly amongst their friend group - which I was peripherally a part of. All of the connections I had to that group either disassociated themselves with those folks like I did, or disappeared because of hard drug use.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#322

Post by strken »

okwubodu wrote: post #261

The second order effects of affirmative action's repeal are going to be very entertaining. You can get a sneak peek by taking a look at the student body at a school like UT Austin where, by law, 75% of students must be in-state and automatically admitted according to class rank (GPA). https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile You'll notice that when comparing Harvard and UT's student bodies to the US and…

When I was 18 I filled out the section of the form for rural applicants (in the Australian university system), but with the benefit of hindsight I wish I'd left it blank. I'm 95% sure that I would have made it anyway yet the 5% doubt is unpleasant.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#323

Post by dragonwriter »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #314
etchalon wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People were accusing people of being "diversity hires", or having "slept their way to top", or similar dismissive nonsense long before AA was in wide use.

Well, affirmative action mandates diversity hires. I don't think affirmative action affects "sleeping their way to the top".

> Well, affirmative action mandates diversity hires.

No, it doesn’t.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#324

Post by givemeethekeys »

qzw wrote: post #312
givemeethekeys wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, it'll be awesome. In the short term, the few black kids and women who end up in engineering will get respect for making it into the program. And, hopefully a few years later, they'll no longer be looked at as diversity hires.

Oh, certainly. A few years is all black kids and women need to overcome racial and gender prejudices in this country. Or how about we don’t assume all black kids and women are diversity hires now , and maybe, I don’t know, treat each one as an individual and judge them based on the content of their character instead of the color of their skin or the number of their X chromosomes?

Without affirmative action, all thats left is meritocracy and nepotism.

So, I imagine an increasing number of black people and women (or anyone else perceived as less deserving) will be seen as "friend of the boss" or "the boss is doing them a favor". Either way, those can be easily addressed and therefore better than being forever labeled as a diversity hire (aka naturally inferior).

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#325

Post by eru »

qzw wrote: post #312
givemeethekeys wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, it'll be awesome. In the short term, the few black kids and women who end up in engineering will get respect for making it into the program. And, hopefully a few years later, they'll no longer be looked at as diversity hires.

Oh, certainly. A few years is all black kids and women need to overcome racial and gender prejudices in this country. Or how about we don’t assume all black kids and women are diversity hires now , and maybe, I don’t know, treat each one as an individual and judge them based on the content of their character instead of the color of their skin or the number of their X chromosomes?

If you lower admission standards for any group, say blue people, than statistically speaking blue people will have a lower average.

Just like when you see the the son of the CEO working at the company, there's a certain probability that he didn't get in based on his performance alone.

Of course, as you suggest, there are sons of the CEO who really are the most qualified candidate for whatever job they are holding. But there's also nepotism.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#326

Post by ameister14 »

daxelrod wrote: post #254
Test0129 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I object to the use of "white privilege" on first principles: Interpreted literally, it implies all whites are privileged. This is categorically untrue. It encourages racism through associating an immutable trait with a negative word. "White privilege" is no more true than saying "Jewish privilege" or "Asian privilege" when referring to trends that do not reflect the whole. For the latter two one would be accused of…

Why do you believe "privilege" is a negative word? Also, assuming you mean Robin DiAngelo, what of hers have you read? She's pretty clear in both White Fragility and Nice Racism in advocating against "constant, deliberate, self-flaggelation" because they center the person doing it and take energy away from productive action.

Not the person you were replying to, but do you have positive associations with the word "privilege?"

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#327

Post by seadan83 »

ETH_start wrote: post #255
cocacola1 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cold comfort to the near-penniless and penniless.

Real life is filled with disappointments and limitations, even with the best social structures in place. The false promise of a social revolution that provides instant wealth and salvation for all is used by populists to gain power, but any attempt to realize this promise leads to worse outcomes for the public.

I don't know if the promise is instant wealth and salvation, but at least those making 100x more than me would at least pay the same tax rate.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#328

Post by wrycoder »

redeux wrote: post #178
wrycoder wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the elites. Horowitz: Occupy Wall Street: The Communist Movement Reborn [0]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Occupy-Wall-Street-Communist-Movement...

That book was written by authors with a noted conservative agenda so I’m not sure I would take them at face value, especially given the hyperbolic title.

It’s an input, one needs a range of information to make a call.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#329

Post by jimmygrapes »

tzs wrote: post #279
okwubodu wrote: post #261

The second order effects of affirmative action's repeal are going to be very entertaining. You can get a sneak peek by taking a look at the student body at a school like UT Austin where, by law, 75% of students must be in-state and automatically admitted according to class rank (GPA). https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile You'll notice that when comparing Harvard and UT's student bodies to the US and…

> Once AA is overturned, that's it—hands off the scale Or change it so it is not race based. Instead make it geographical. Say you want to admit 1000 students from the US. Partition the US into 1000 districts, with 1 student admitted per district. Gerrymander the district boundaries to make sure that you get the racial demographics you want. Have fun watching the Supreme Court try to explain why that is not OK but it…

sounds like the solution is to mandate that black (and asian and so on) people are required to be evenly distributed rather than congregate in enclaves susceptible to gerrymandering.

or, wait. that's not good, is it. or is it?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#330

Post by onos »

okay_dude_321 wrote: post #311
okwubodu wrote: post #261

The second order effects of affirmative action's repeal are going to be very entertaining. You can get a sneak peek by taking a look at the student body at a school like UT Austin where, by law, 75% of students must be in-state and automatically admitted according to class rank (GPA). https://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile You'll notice that when comparing Harvard and UT's student bodies to the US and…

Quoted post unavailable.

All you need to do is look at UC system to see that there may indeed be an impact.

https://opa.berkeley.edu/uc-berkeley-fall-enrollment-data-ne...

Post reply on HN