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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#231

Post by maxfurman »

geoduck14 wrote: post #204
coyotespike wrote: post #187

Here in Texas, any student from the top 10% of their high school is guaranteed a place at the flagship University of Texas at Austin. This is widely understood to be a form of affirmative action. Naturally, high schools in underprivileged areas - rural or urban - will produce students who are nowhere nearly as prepared as students from elite or wealthy schools. We ignore that difference as a policy matter. Top 10% is…

The top 10% of the good high schools don't go to University of Texas

The parent comment isn't about who goes to UT, it's about who gets accepted.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#232

Post by kcb »

tejtm wrote: post #197
hprotagonist wrote: post #175

That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about: the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society: they try to divide the rest of the people; they keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money. Fairly simple thing... happens to work. You kn…

[flagged]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTZ-CpINiqg

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#233

Post by Spooky23 »

favorited wrote: post #196

I've always loved how succinctly LBJ put it: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Everyone should read Robert Caro’s biographies of LBJ.

The destitution and most importantly shame that he experienced as a boy shaped him, both in the amazing way he was able to seize control of the Senate and defeat the racist reactionaries who mentored him, and in the negative way that he embraced and wielded unbridled power and corruption.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#234

Post by s5300 »

civilized wrote: post #213
coyotespike wrote: post #187

Here in Texas, any student from the top 10% of their high school is guaranteed a place at the flagship University of Texas at Austin. This is widely understood to be a form of affirmative action. Naturally, high schools in underprivileged areas - rural or urban - will produce students who are nowhere nearly as prepared as students from elite or wealthy schools. We ignore that difference as a policy matter. Top 10% is…

On this particular issue of college accessibility to high-achieving underprivileged kids, Texas is the most progressive state in the US. Name a "progressive" state that comes even close.

Can’t have high-achieving underprivileged kids if they don’t even have lunch to eat during school…

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#235

Post by civilized »

notch656a wrote: post #227
civilized wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On this particular issue of college accessibility to high-achieving underprivileged kids, Texas is the most progressive state in the US. Name a "progressive" state that comes even close.

Texas also has some of the more progressive housing policies, with basically no zoning in places like Houston and fairly high property taxes which disincentivize speculators from sitting on real estate. In regards to education, they allow a "academic fresh start" for university GPA, allowing those with a difficult start to erase 10+ year old GPA. It can help those with difficult beginnings get into medical school, fo…

Real progressivism. Teddy Roosevelt would approve.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#236

Post by aiisahik »

hprotagonist wrote: post #175

That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about: the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society: they try to divide the rest of the people; they keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money. Fairly simple thing... happens to work. You kn…

Love George Carlin. RIP.

The most pathetic thing about the American discourse about Affirmative Action is that everyone has an opinion on what the admissions standards SHOULD be from their perspective on how society should operate.

Some think admissions should be all about merit.

Some think that since the first 18 years of the student's live has been unfair and racist, 4 yrs of college should somehow attempt to rectify that.

Nobody realizes that the colleges don't give a shit about any of that. Admissions are there to maximize the prestige of the college. That's it. To be damned with diversity and society.

Furthermore, nobody seems to recognize that Affirmative Action doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. College admissions are not really about merit. Affirmative actions is not able to undo the racism and economic equities of this country. It's not able to make black and brown parents push education on their kids the same way that Asian parents do. By the time the student is 18 it's too late - society has done its worst. And so despite the fact that the US has had affirmative action for many many years, social mobility here is worse than France, Italy, Sweden, and Britain. (see https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/02/14/american...)

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#237

Post by juve1996 »

kube-system wrote: post #225
juve1996 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty straightforward disadvantage. The only solution is to make public schools accept people of color. There's no other way around that. If you don't, they won't. What we're dealing with now is the legacy of those decisions. They made sense in that context but the context has changed.

What is a disadvantage is that some people of color experience limited opportunity due to differences in generational wealth and other factors. These disadvantages can be measured directly . There's no need to erroneously presume that Sasha and Malia are more disadvantaged on their college application than a poor Appalachian white kid with the same test scores.

My point was, that less than 60 years ago, it very clearly was a disadvantage, because of the system.

> These disadvantages can be measured directly. There's no need to erroneously presume that Sasha and Malia are more disadvantaged than a poor Appalachian white kid with the same test scores.

The rate of poverty of black children is much higher than that of white children, so black children will ultimately get more benefit because it's needed more. The problem is that we think this is a zero sum game when it isn't. We can help them both.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#238

Post by louky »

juve1996 wrote: post #174
kube-system wrote: post #18

Yeah, I agree that it is important to take into account disadvantages that people may have unfairly experienced due to no fault of their own. But, why do we need to use race as a proxy? Presuming something about someone based on their skin color is prejudice regardless of your intentions. If people are disadvantaged, let's measure those disadvantages directly and adjust for those factors.

> But, why do we need to use race as a proxy? Because historically race was used systemically to limit opportunities for people of color. The last school to be desegregated was in 1963. Think about that.

1963? I remember burning school buses and people shot dead when they were finally forcing integration when I was a kid - mid/late 1970s https://www.nytimes.com/1975/09/07/archives/guard-called-out...

They're still not really integrated. At all.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#239

Post by alsaaro »

There is an error in the opening paragraph of the article, while it's true Trump added another conservative to the Supreme Court, prior conservative courts have always upheld the legality of affirmative action; indeed, every iteration of the Supreme Court has been conservative since affirmative actions inception.

One would question why affirmative action was legal and constitutional just a few years ago, and as far back as the 1980's, but illegal now.

As for the content of the article, discrimination in the US against blacks, historically and presently, is race based, not class based. This is common sense, perceptualy one only sees someones outer features, not their bank balance or other unknowable signs of class.

At one point blacks (even world famous American blacks) couldn't vote, couldn't attend the commons, couldn't purchase homes in certain affluent neighborhoods, and couldn't be part of certain organizations (and still can't till this day). Curiously, blacks were never compensated for this injury perpetuated against them by their own government.

This sort of discrimination was wholly race based, your income or your social standing was irrelevant. This is why people focus on race and not the red herring that is class.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#240

Post by [deleted] »

hprotagonist wrote: post #175

That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about: the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society: they try to divide the rest of the people; they keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money. Fairly simple thing... happens to work. You kn…

[deleted]
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