Live data from Hacker News

The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

efinancialcareers.com

431–440 of 869 posts

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#431
I am one of the few stubborn people I guess, that insists in wanting to work with C++, C, Lua...

All I see is Python, Ruby, JS, Java, etc... jobs. So why bother learning a language that has no jobs for it? No wonder the amount of developers are decreasing. It is just offer meeting the demand.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#433
post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

I left my last job which was entirely C++ because of lower wages compared to the industry and low upside in wage growth potential. While I enjoy the lower level nature of that kind of work why stay somewhere solving hard C++ problems when I can go do some easier web backend stuff somewhere else making 15% more or become a kubernetes expert and break into new pay band all together?

>solving hard C++ problems when I can go do some easier web backend stuff

As guy who worked with both C++ and backend I would assume you don't have much experience if you say one is harder than the other. Different beasts, different problems to solve, complexity lies in different parts.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah same, I’m an EE camping out in software because of the pay. It’s also just easier work. I would much rather be intellectually challenged coding firmware or embedded work. I didn’t go to school to build web widgets. It’s just EE pays so badly you can’t make the bills. I was getting offered numbers that wouldn’t have afforded my own studio apartment to rent. For EE work. It’s insulting.

...which is ridiculous because of what it takes to become an EE VS what it takes to become a "web developer". Basically anyone who can handle basic logic can be a web developer if they just put in a bit of effort. Degree or not! To become an EE you need a 4-year degree and a whole heck of a lot of knowledge about things that are a real pain in the ass for laypeople like calculating inductance, capacitance, and impeda…

> You don't need much knowledge to make a circuit board

Not quite.

For most modern high speed designs PCB's are very far from being simple. Signal and power integrity are critical. It doesn't help that these can be "voodoo" fields where, a bit like RF, years of experience as well as the theoretical foundation are really important.

That said, I think I know where you are coming from. A ton of low-performance embedded designs these days can be done by people with very little EE education. Anyone can learn anything online. There are plenty of resources. This is a good thing, of course.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#436
post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

> Because Python pays more. In the extremely underpaid start-up world? C, Java, C++, Kotlin, Swift, etc - IIUC pay MUCH better and are more in demand at companies where you really make good money as an engineer.

Not according to latest developer survey by Stack Overflow.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#437
post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

Yes, the embedded space pays terrible, and the employers don't seem great on the whole. When I was at Google I got to work on embedded stuff and really liked it; but I was getting a Google salary. When I left Google I pursued IoT and embedded jobs a bit and while I was not expecting Google level compensation at all, I was astounded at what was going on there, pay wise. General software eng back end jobs pay better. T…

I feel almost exactly the same way as you. I've flitted around the research/applied research boundary for ML for the last decade+, so I write plenty of Python. I enjoy the way Python gets out of my way so I can focus on interesting research problems. But the actual act of writing code in C++ is so much more fun, once you get good enough at it that the footguns don't trip you up.

The embedded AI space is a pretty good place to make money writing C++. I was in autonomous vehicles for a bit. It didn't really interrupt my post-Google compensation trajectory, and I got to write performance- and safety-critical C++

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> glorified CRUD apps Why is API design/backend engineering the only software discipline that gets maligned like this? These are bread-and-butter operations. I don't mean to attack you, just noting that I never hear anyone talk about mobile development in the same way, for example.

A lot of CRUD app development feels like tedious, repetitive busy work. Data entry was a solved problem in COBOL if not earlier, it's not gotten any harder in the decades since, it's just gotten more tedious. There are generic data entry tools that solve the entire class of problems in that space. In web tooling there are things like Django's Admin app. In "the ancient world" there is Excel for good and bad and ugly.…

As someone who has done .NET, C++ embedded, Python and NodeJS, I have to say that picking up NodeJS and creating APIs at scale with full automated nightly test suites using docker and postman/newman was very easy to learn and very fun. Python is up there as well but I had to work on Django and not some of the more simpler api frameworks that looks nice.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#439
post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

I've seen that too, ironic since most scripting languages are written in c++, but languages such as go and rust are now self-hosted so there's finally meaningful aloternatives to either c++ or java/c# (in the case of go).

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#440
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds… problematic. What can you say about the state of security with it?

The code is quite secure, but the process and company are... typical processes and company people. Paper ballots and physical boxes are more secure if good practices are followed. At one point I was tasked with shuffling the data layout on disk in real time to mitigate de-anonymization attacks. Security was real concern. Crypto everywhere. The voted ballots were encrypted with keys generated and delivered immediately…

I am from Brazil. If you saw the news, the current president that just lost elections, been insisting for years, that elections here are untrustworthy.

Reason is simple: electronic voting machines with no logging, paper trail or anything. And the common people doesn't have permission to do penetration tests or read the entire source. All of it is proprietary and secretive with no public testing basically.

For years the now president, when he was still congressman, been trying to make a law where the voting machines will print the vote, and deposit on a box. This way people can count the votes printed not just trust the machine, but the government keep inventing reasons to not allow this, even when a law passed, judiciary struck it down.

Thus today people are protesting, seemly almost half of the country voted for him, the difference was tiny, they are protesting. The winner insists elections were fair, but how you prove it when the machines are proprietary and secret? How you prove it when they have no log of votes, and instead just print the totals? In a country full of corruption, and where the the mafia literally made a party to commemorate a specific person became chief election judge, how you trust nobody bribed the manufacturer or the programmers?

Post reply on HN