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Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

ec.europa.eu

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Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#101

Post by em500 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #71
em500 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Europeans are not "constantly being told not to give out our bank details". That's an American thing, apparently due to a quirk that allows anyone with a US bank account number to draw money from that account. Euro banks certainly don't work that way. Having a Euro bank account number only allows people to transfer to, not from that account. 2. Why do you believe that an instant payment system requires us to "give…

> Having a Euro bank account number only allows people to transfer to, not from that account. At least in the case of Germany, this is factually incorrect: We do have Lastschrift, which is eerily similar to "drawing money from an account". Sure, we can get that money back during a six week period IF the receiver still has it, but it is a hassle.

Ok, I admit that I don't know the particulars of every Euro area bank system. But if you're referring to SEPA Direct Debit, only commercial clients can do that, after going through tons of hoops and paperwork. (In practice, all SEPA Direct Debits requests I've experienced in the last few years required me to first transfer a cent the them, to confirm that I'm actually in control of that account. )

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#102

Post by manholio »

DocTomoe wrote: post #34
newaccount74 wrote: post #4

This will be huge. This will allow anyone to accept digital payments, eg. at a farmers market, using the bank accounts everyone already has. The only thing missing is forcing banks to provide an API for third party integrations, but I think there is a separate proposal on the way for that. Imagine being able to accept instant payments from everyone in the EU, without having to sign up for a service like Stripe or Pay…

I feel this is too little, too late. People who would use this already have started using Credit/debit cards (instead of local systems). Bank account numbers are not easy to transmit (sure, we could do this via QR code, but that's a new piece of technology people would have to learn how to use). The internet has happened, and it works on credit card-style numbers. Banks had a chance to introduce this ten years ago -…

> The internet has happened, and it works on credit card-style numbers.

and that's a usability disaster. the entire experience is atrocious, you have to enter and secure multiple pieces of numeric data.

it's a system begging to be disrupted.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#103

Post by seydor »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #17
newaccount74 wrote: post #4

This will be huge. This will allow anyone to accept digital payments, eg. at a farmers market, using the bank accounts everyone already has. The only thing missing is forcing banks to provide an API for third party integrations, but I think there is a separate proposal on the way for that. Imagine being able to accept instant payments from everyone in the EU, without having to sign up for a service like Stripe or Pay…

On the other hand, this is another step towards cashless society, where every transaction is tracked by the government.

No, it is going from "being tracked by , Stripe, their analytics partners, the bank, mastercard/visa, the NSA, [...]" to being tracked by the website and the banks. EU banks already have the infrastructure for instant payments, so this should be a non brainer

I don't see why transactions that use cash today, wont use cash tomorrow

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#104

Post by hocuspocus »

thefounder wrote: post #89
hocuspocus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wire 200k I honestly don't care if it takes a few hours (nowadays, old-school SEPA transfers don't necessarily take more) and happens only during business days/hours. It gives everyone more room to cancel if you fucked up.

You could schedule the transfer if you are "undecided". Why would you want to rely on unknown bank timmings?

It's not about being undecided, rather reverting mistakes. Scheduling a transfer would obviously work too.

The current way banks process non-instant SEPA transfers is very predictable and not a problem in some scenarios. SEPA is huge and breaking the old scheme to force everyone to move to SCT inst doesn't seem realistic anyway.

Similarly, the UK hasn't stopped using BACS even though the availability of Faster Payments is ubiquitous today.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#105

Post by messe »

CoUHKT57BSe wrote: post #83
em500 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Europeans are not "constantly being told not to give out our bank details". That's an American thing, apparently due to a quirk that allows anyone with a US bank account number to draw money from that account. Euro banks certainly don't work that way. Having a Euro bank account number only allows people to transfer to, not from that account. 2. Why do you believe that an instant payment system requires us to "give…

1. I am European (Irish) and I am constantly being told not to give out bank details. I don't mean people are always telling me that, but when ever there is information about being safe and avoiding scams they always say to not give out bank details, and that is info for EU people. There are many examples online. 2. I was replying to a message, and in that message the user gave the example that at a farmers market so…

I'm Irish as well, and your IBAN (bank account number) is not a secret. There's no real harm in giving it out. Hospitals, for example, provide their own IBAN in correspondence for payments via SEPA transfer.

You'll find as well that most of your banking apps allow you to save the IBAN of various contacts. I have the IBANs of a few friends and family members saved to my phone that way, and the only thing I can do with that information is send them money.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#106

Post by psychoslave »

wtmt wrote: post #63
f6v wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see an issue. The government already knows how much I earn, where I live, etc.

Many people wouldn’t see an issue until they’re either personally affected or are the kind to look at privacy and freedoms deeply. The question for you is whether the government has a need or the right to know every penny (or whatever fractional currency you can legally use) that you move around. This shouldn’t be confused with the government having a need to know about incomes and/or wealth for taxation purposes. Sa…

> The question for you is whether the government has a need or the right to know every penny (or whatever fractional currency you can legally use) that you move around.

First, there is nothing like the government in Europe.

Secondly, the organisms that are tracking as extensively as possible European citizen are mostly private firms (whose parent companies are typically not European). European directives like GPDR are on the contrary rather shielding European citizen privacy if anything.

I doubt this proposition is forcing to withdraw cash within euro zone. Citizen are free to continue to use cash or not at there discretion.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#107

Post by messe »

newaccount74 wrote: post #94
CoUHKT57BSe wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I am European (Irish) and I am constantly being told not to give out bank details. I don't mean people are always telling me that, but when ever there is information about being safe and avoiding scams they always say to not give out bank details, and that is info for EU people. There are many examples online. 2. I was replying to a message, and in that message the user gave the example that at a farmers market so…

> I am constantly being told not to give out bank details You shouldn't give out usernames and passwords. Your bank account number is not a secret. > I'm going to have to give my bank account details to all the strangers who want to buy a few apples from me I don't know what it's like in Ireland, but literally every business in Austria prints their bank account number on the invoice so you can pay it. Bank account nu…

> I don't know what it's like in Ireland, but literally every business in Austria prints their bank account number on the invoice so you can pay it. Bank account numbers are not secret. There's not much people can do with a bank account number apart from send money to it.

It's pretty much the same in Ireland, I've no idea what the other commenter thinks can be accomplished with an IBAN.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#108

Post by arlattimore »

Australia did a strategic review of payments in 2012, one of the findings was they needed instant payments - it was rolled out in 2018. The days of waiting days and days for money to transfer between banks/accounts/etc are a thing of the past and it is great. Great to see the same sort of capabilities coming to the EU!

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#109

Post by pjc50 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #34
newaccount74 wrote: post #4

This will be huge. This will allow anyone to accept digital payments, eg. at a farmers market, using the bank accounts everyone already has. The only thing missing is forcing banks to provide an API for third party integrations, but I think there is a separate proposal on the way for that. Imagine being able to accept instant payments from everyone in the EU, without having to sign up for a service like Stripe or Pay…

I feel this is too little, too late. People who would use this already have started using Credit/debit cards (instead of local systems). Bank account numbers are not easy to transmit (sure, we could do this via QR code, but that's a new piece of technology people would have to learn how to use). The internet has happened, and it works on credit card-style numbers. Banks had a chance to introduce this ten years ago -…

The overhead of card processors, while capped by law in the EU, is not zero, and not everybody can easily set up to receive payments. Various countries have systems like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipps which reduce the friction yet further.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#110

Post by legulere »

arlattimore wrote: post #108

Australia did a strategic review of payments in 2012, one of the findings was they needed instant payments - it was rolled out in 2018. The days of waiting days and days for money to transfer between banks/accounts/etc are a thing of the past and it is great. Great to see the same sort of capabilities coming to the EU!

Wire transfers already have a maximum limit of one day inside the EU, so at least you don’t have to wait days and days.

Instant payments have the advantage that they better integrate into online shopping. You could have used signed receipts for the wire transfer by the bank instead though.

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