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Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

ec.europa.eu

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Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#91

Post by newaccount74 »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #11
newaccount74 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech for instant tranfers is already there, they just charge ridiculous amounts for it. Eg. my bank charges 7€ for an instant transfer, slow transfers are free. This proposal would make all transfers free and instant.

It's impossible to make anything free. The likely outcome is the costs will be moved around so that its paid indirectly.

I already pay a monthly fee for my bank account, and other banks manage to offer instant transfers for free. I really can't imagine that instant transfers cost my bank 7€ per transaction.

They are just trying to make a quick profit.

Just like card payment processing fees, this is a case where banks are overcharging for a service, and the EU will fix the situation.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#92

Post by AdamN »

prvit wrote: post #32
tluyben2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically this is already the case in many countries; NL to my Revolut or PT accounts is seconds, vice versa too. It works well. But it is not guaranteed. Api would be good; I can imagine visa and mastercard are getting a little bit panicked as this is already trivial and I am using my phone for payments anyway (no idea where my card is) (but still use them of course via NFC).

It’ll be trivial if Apple implements it. Europeans? They’ll figure out a way to require chipTAN and SMS confirmation for POS transactions.

Fellow Deutsche Bank customer??

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#93

Post by yladiz »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #27
yladiz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks already make enough money from interest on loans, they can afford the minor cost of an instant SEPA transfer. The €7 cost that the parent is charged is way too high, I only have to pay €0.5 for the same with my bank, with a cap of €2,000 on the amount of the transfer (above it can only be the slow transfer).

Yes, hopefully that will be the case when everyone uses it due to economies of scale. A few extra euro cents per transaction should only represent a small burden per account holder.

I hope so. I hope it won't be the case where it's enforced that people have the ability to send money instantly but the cost isn't capped.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#94

Post by newaccount74 »

CoUHKT57BSe wrote: post #83
em500 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Europeans are not "constantly being told not to give out our bank details". That's an American thing, apparently due to a quirk that allows anyone with a US bank account number to draw money from that account. Euro banks certainly don't work that way. Having a Euro bank account number only allows people to transfer to, not from that account. 2. Why do you believe that an instant payment system requires us to "give…

1. I am European (Irish) and I am constantly being told not to give out bank details. I don't mean people are always telling me that, but when ever there is information about being safe and avoiding scams they always say to not give out bank details, and that is info for EU people. There are many examples online. 2. I was replying to a message, and in that message the user gave the example that at a farmers market so…

> I am constantly being told not to give out bank details

You shouldn't give out usernames and passwords. Your bank account number is not a secret.

> I'm going to have to give my bank account details to all the strangers who want to buy a few apples from me

I don't know what it's like in Ireland, but literally every business in Austria prints their bank account number on the invoice so you can pay it. Bank account numbers are not secret. There's not much people can do with a bank account number apart from send money to it.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#95

Post by metacritic12 »

qngcdvy wrote: post #31
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, this is another step towards cashless society, where every transaction is tracked by the government.

As much as the tracking I fear the access control. Made some stupid comment online while being drunk? We take your ability to by transportation passes/plane tickets... IIRC this is already happening in China.

Or Canada during the trucker protests.

More scary IMO because the US / Europe will never be China, but it's easy to see some president in the US logic their way into the same position as Canada, and use the same state apparatuses to banish dissenters.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#96

Post by em500 »

CoUHKT57BSe wrote: post #83
em500 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Europeans are not "constantly being told not to give out our bank details". That's an American thing, apparently due to a quirk that allows anyone with a US bank account number to draw money from that account. Euro banks certainly don't work that way. Having a Euro bank account number only allows people to transfer to, not from that account. 2. Why do you believe that an instant payment system requires us to "give…

1. I am European (Irish) and I am constantly being told not to give out bank details. I don't mean people are always telling me that, but when ever there is information about being safe and avoiding scams they always say to not give out bank details, and that is info for EU people. There are many examples online. 2. I was replying to a message, and in that message the user gave the example that at a farmers market so…

1. With bank details I mean name+act number. Of course we are also being told not to share login details etc. But here in the Netherlands tiny businesses and individuals do not hesitate giving you their account number if they expect payments from you. Giving your bank account was the defacto way to receive payments before moving to instant payment links. It still is for most businesses, even tiny ones like farmers and plumbers.

2. I still don't know why you think it's a problem for a farmer at a market to share their bank account number for people to pay them. Pretty much any business bank account number here is public information. But even if for some reason you think that it's hugely problematic, it's technically pretty simple to setup an instant payment system that don't require making any account number public.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#97

Post by hoffs »

tluyben2 wrote: post #13
newaccount74 wrote: post #4

This will be huge. This will allow anyone to accept digital payments, eg. at a farmers market, using the bank accounts everyone already has. The only thing missing is forcing banks to provide an API for third party integrations, but I think there is a separate proposal on the way for that. Imagine being able to accept instant payments from everyone in the EU, without having to sign up for a service like Stripe or Pay…

Practically this is already the case in many countries; NL to my Revolut or PT accounts is seconds, vice versa too. It works well. But it is not guaranteed. Api would be good; I can imagine visa and mastercard are getting a little bit panicked as this is already trivial and I am using my phone for payments anyway (no idea where my card is) (but still use them of course via NFC).

Sure, there are countless of apps that can do instant transfers. The issue here is that sepa instant rollout has been taking way too long and this would force it to actually be required. It's a breeze having able to transfer money between banks any time of day in a few seconds.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#98

Post by DocTomoe »

samjmck wrote: post #85
DocTomoe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel this is too little, too late. People who would use this already have started using Credit/debit cards (instead of local systems). Bank account numbers are not easy to transmit (sure, we could do this via QR code, but that's a new piece of technology people would have to learn how to use). The internet has happened, and it works on credit card-style numbers. Banks had a chance to introduce this ten years ago -…

> By now, the market has other, more internationally accepted modes of payment. Hundreds of millions of citizens gain access to instant payments through SEPA. It’s already compatible with the existing banking system Europeans are already used to, i.e. share an IBAN with someone and share money. Which other cheap instant payment methods are there that are available to so many people?

Payment/Debit cards, which work worldwide, and often are given out by the same European banks to use in supermarkets and at ATMs.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#99

Post by hoffs »

Goz3rr wrote: post #9
hardware2win wrote: post #7

Will it be like Polish BLIK? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik Instant payments Money transfers over phone number 2 minutes payment codes that you type on e.g website and accept payment in app Shopping example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBw1qa07gGU Stats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI4R94ZLvM

It's basically a SEPA transfer as they already exist, except instant. I'm not sure how Poland would fit into this exactly as the press release specifically mentions payments in euro, not zloty. Dutch banks have supported instant payments for a couple of years now, and the way person to person payments are most often done is through something called a "Tikkie" which involves sending someone a payment URL (via any mess…

Sepa instant already exists, this addresses the fact that banks and institutions are taking way too long to support.

Re: Commission proposes to accelerate the rollout of instant payments in euro

#100

Post by hoffs »

rieTohgh6 wrote: post #18
akie wrote: post #2

Obviously a good idea that should be implemented immediately.

Are you sure it should implemented immediately? > with an obligation on providers to verify the match between the bank account number (IBAN) and the name of the beneficiary provided by the payer This will break a lot of payment flows, currently that verification is rarely enforced. For example I have saved "power company" as receiver's name, the transfers still work since everything besides IBAN is ignored.

Confirmation of payee is nothing new
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