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Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

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Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#141
I've had severe depression twice and I made it through it but man was it tough. Defecating over 10 times a day. Total body sweat, shivering in bed wishing I would die. Praying all night for relief.

My first win was baking a potato more than a month into it. Under normal circumstances I'm a good cook.

You sound depressed. Do the right thing with the employer and quit. Say you thought you could push through it, but you can't with the depression. It's not fair to make them fire you, even if you don't like it there. If you need financial support file for disability.

As soon as you possibly can, start working on something you 100% agree with. If you've always wanted to serve coffee at a cute cafe, do that. It doesn't matter how much it pays you can figure the money stuff out later. You are in full blown avoid-this-getting-any-worse mode right now.

I truly wish you the best and hope you make it through this. The day can be better again. I know how hard it is to believe this when it happens, but it is true. Do not give up.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#142

Burnout checklist: Confirm you have/don't have ADHD. Confirm you have/don't really have a major depressive episode. Somehow "burnout" is a more acceptable label than major depression. Because it's supposed to come from having worked too much. But as far as I can see burnout and major depressive episodes are hard to distinguish just from the symptoms. Prognosis and treatment are different. You may not need multiple mo…

I've burned out and been depressed(diagnosed and medication) they're different for sure.

You can burn out on an activity, eventually give it up. Depression is everything about your life. If burned out at work, I didn't hate everything, I still enjoyed my hobbies and put effort into them. I didn't stop cleaning my room and fight with my so.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#143
post #27

I have been there too! I was also incapable of working afterwards. All the code was alien to me. Being in the office was a nightmare. I wanted shout and jump through the window! And seeing all the people whose mismanagement let me into this bad post burnout situation was even worse. Corona, my savior, came to me and office was closed. In hid at home and forced myself to do 6 daily pomodoros. That was enough to keep m…

What do you mean by 4-6 daily pomodoros? Is that 45 mins of work with 15 min breaks?

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#145
Not sure if someone in the comments already recommended this. But I found that simply doing less work for a period of time while I got myself back on track was an important aspect of curing my burnout.

Not caring is actually a healthy step. Care less, do less work, and if they fire you tell them exactly what happened, and go find yourself a different job. When you get this different job, set better boundaries. Eventually you will find your output increasing.

Going from burnout to no work back to full work also did nothing for me.

The advice around therapy and medication for potential ADHD is important as well.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#146
Sorry for what happened to you. My anecdote was that years ago, I was stressed out from a high pressure project where I was literally vomiting in the office parking lot, immediately cleaned myself up, and went inside to repeat the grind. I took over a project/contract that was more than a year behind schedule. When I got the ship upright and actually completed the project, the thanks I got was nil. That's corporate life. I learned my lesson and left as soon as I could. No job is worth your health.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech can generate enormous wealth. Talking on the order of 1 guys code for Google might bring in 100s of millions of dollars of revenue (granted most guys codes contribute far far less). I find it rather hard to generate 100s of millions of dollars of wealth through metal working. On the flip side, which is harder to outsource? For metal trinkets it would be similar, for stuff that needs to be on prem.. metal working…

Outsourcing doesn't affect the labor market. Offshoring does. And there's no such thing as choosing to offshore or not. Everything that can get offshored gets offshored, which isn't actually that much. Supply of tech labor in other countries is just as tight.

> Everything that can get offshored gets offshored, which isn't actually that much.

Eh, there are some moats. For example around Law.

Imagine how much members of the US could save with offshored and outsourced law?

But lawyers have a strong guild protecting them. Software developers do not.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#148
hey there, sorry to hear you are not feeling all right. I know the feeling.

If you got to a point where it's "that bad", then the first thing I would do is lower that level of emotional and physical stress as much as possible. Since this is being caused by thinking, you can't solve it by thinking. You must realize this to get out of there. You can't get out of your situation by thinking.

Step 1: Relax and rest your mind in nature.

I would take a 3-5 days trip ( 7 ideal ) camping/hiking trip alone, don't take your phone or laptop. Pick a trail that you can follow on a map, or just go camping. Keep it within your means. Don't prove yourself, and don't pick a challenge. Keep it simple, easy, and attainable. You should live in the next week. Don't delay this.

Focus your mind on the problem at hand, and notice when irrational worries come in while planning your trip. Don't argue with them, just focus on finding the practical solution quickly.

This is medicine for your brain. This will help you in several ways. First, it will help you focus on a task, it will show you the negative patterns in your mind and teach you how to overcome them. It will show you, you can get things done and not always listen to the narration of your mind.

Just being there will help you relax and recharge your body keeping you focused on all the work that camping involves.

While you are there, find places where you can sit alone and feel the forest, the moment. Not by thinking about it, not in the interface of the mind, on the narration of thought ( label, judging, etc ). But by experiencing it directly. You'll know you go it when you start to feel the beauty, listen to the wind, and notice small insects and slow things. This is your only goal, this will help you rest you mind.

Don't force it, don't over-concentrate, don't "heat-up" your brain as a car going at max revs. If you get frustrated, remember is not about not being frustrated, but about taking energy ( power, attention, battery life ) to the thought process that is frustrated.

Lowering "your thinking revs" takes time, you can't accelerate that. It takes 2-3 days in nauture, so take it easy. Things might and will feel strange, bad. Lot's of thoughts to leave got back home, compulsion about using phone and laptop, lot's of what-if's. Lot's of ideas that will solve all your problems if you go back. STAY until you can sit down on the ground and watch the leaves fly of trees. Until you can listen to the wind, look at a fire burn - all without thinking, without trying not to think. Just be still, do nothing, eyes open. Be. This is the medicine.

We don't get burnout by working too much, lots of people work 2 and 3 shifts and they are all right. We get burnout by a condition we did not know we had that makes us think and worry too much. Compulsively, until our brains get really tired.

We must learn how to manage this condition and our brains ( minds ). But we can't do this while in "burnout", crisis and certainly not by thinking and worrying non stop about the future.

Step 2:

Be prepared before you live for when you get back home. You will be successful, and when you get back you'll feel better. Try to have things organized, to take advantage of this breakthrough and apply all you learned in this "retreat" in your daily life.

You must be really focused on healing and recovering. The thought process will come back, it's a habit and a pattern. You must be patient and persistent.

Find people like this around you, try meditation, yoga centers, and qi gong centers near you until you find one that clicks.

Doing this ( not thinking about it ) must be your priority in life.

If you focus on yourself now, you will be ok in the future. Promise.

Happy to help more if this resonates with you: roberto@paz.co.cr

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#149

I've had severe depression twice and I made it through it but man was it tough. Defecating over 10 times a day. Total body sweat, shivering in bed wishing I would die. Praying all night for relief. My first win was baking a potato more than a month into it. Under normal circumstances I'm a good cook. You sound depressed. Do the right thing with the employer and quit. Say you thought you could push through it, but you…

>As soon as you possibly can, start working on something you 100% agree with.

Man, that point resonates with me. I quit a while back due to severe burnout (actually, I think now, boreout) and have been struggling to get enthused about anything. I think what you said here is the core of why I might be done with tech as a profession entirely - I'm almost completely soured with the impact and direction of it as a whole.

So then the question becomes well, what do I agree with and want to do? That's a hard one. This is the only career path I've been on and even if I do find something else, starting off at 40 with no skill base is... oof.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with burnout and its consequences?

#150
hey there, sorry to hear you are not feeling all right. I know the feeling.

If you got to a point where it's "that bad", then the first thing I would do is lower that level of emotional and physical stress as much as possible. Since this is being caused by thinking, you can't solve it by thinking. You must realize this to get out of there. You can't get out of your situation by thinking.

Step 1: Relax and rest your mind in nature.

I would take a 3-5 days trip ( 7 ideal ) camping/hiking trip *alone*, don't take your phone or laptop. Pick a trail that you can follow on a map, or just go camping. Keep it within your means. Don't prove yourself, and don't pick a challenge. Keep it simple, easy, and attainable. You should leave in the next week. Don't delay this.

Focus your mind on the problem at hand, and notice when irrational worries come in while planning your trip. Don't argue with them, just focus on finding the practical solution to it.

This is medicine for your brain. This will help you in several ways. First, it will help you focus on a task, it will show you the negative patterns in your mind and teach you how to overcome them with things within your reach right now. It will show you, you can get things done and learn when not to listen to the narration of your mind.

Just being in nature there will help you relax and recharge your body keeping you focused on all the work that camping involves. But you can turbo-charge it, and it sounds like you need to.

While you are there, find places where you can sit alone and feel the forest, the moment. Not by thinking about it, not in the interface of the mind, on the narration of thought ( label, judging, etc ).

But by experiencing it directly. You'll know you go it when you start to feel the beauty, listen to the wind, and notice small insects and slow things. This is not a goal, not a step to reach. It's the other way around, focus on resting your mind and the feeling of peace and healing shows up. And when it does, stay still, stay the same, in equanimity.

Don't force it, don't over-concentrate, don't "heat-up" your brain as a car going at max revs. If you get frustrated, remember is not about not being frustrated, but about taking energy ( power, attention, battery life ) away from the thought process that is frustrated. Ignore it and focus on something outside, on the feeling in you hands, on sound, sight, smell. Get out of your head.

Lowering "your thinking revs" takes time, you can't accelerate that. It takes 2-3 days in nauture, so take it easy. Things might and will feel strange, bad. Lot's of thoughts to leave got back home, compulsion about using phone and laptop, lot's of what-if's. Lot's of ideas that will solve all your problems if you go back. STAY until you can sit down on the ground and watch the leaves fly of trees. Until you can listen to the wind, look at a fire burn - all without thinking, without trying not to think. Just be still, do nothing, eyes open. Be. This is the medicine.

We don't get burnout by working too much, lots of people work 2 and 3 shifts and they are all right. We get burnout by a condition we did not know we had that makes us think and worry too much. Compulsively, until our brains get really tired.

We must learn how to manage this condition and our brains ( minds ). But we can't do this while in "burnout", crisis and certainly not by thinking and worrying non stop about the future.

Step 2:

Be prepared before you live for when you get back home. You will be successful, and when you get back you'll feel better. Try to have things organized, to take advantage of this breakthrough and apply all you learned in this "retreat" in your daily life.

You must be really focused on healing and recovering. The thought process will come back, it's a habit and a pattern. You must be patient and persistent.

Find people like this around you, try meditation, yoga centers, and qi gong centers near you until you find one that clicks.

Doing this ( not thinking, not worrying, not creating this context, this reality you are in right now ) must be your priority in life.

If you focus on yourself now, you will be ok in the future. Promise.

Remember it's not about getting rid of the feelings. Discover that your emotions, thoughts, and even the burnout it's not happening to you, they are just signals being emitted very strongly. Like error logs overflowing the system, you can't get rid of them or continue ignoring them anymore. Debug, observe, line by line, and you'll get it.

Happy to help more if this resonates with you: roberto@paz.co.cr

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