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The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

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Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#181

Post by cmrdporcupine »

UncleMeat wrote: post #150
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard it quite frequently, but not from people that worked there. I believe that there was a published style guide. My experience is years old, but I remember seeing that it was basically “C++ without objects.” It’s a great language, and the 20 additions bring it right on par with other languages, in terms of type and memory safety.

The style guide is publicly available: https://google.github.io/styleguide/cppguide.html I've never heard anything remotely similar to "avoid objects" here.

Yeah. If anything the Chromium codebase is bloated with uncomfortably intricate OO patterns. Google3, less so, but that's because that kind of server-stuff doesn't lend itself to the same kind of thing, maybe.

I like the Google style guide overall. I tend to use it on new projects even though I'm not there anymore, and when I get into other people's code often my first instinct is to "clean it up" into that style :-)

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#182

Post by fouronnes3 »

oxff wrote: post #161

Most of C++ programming is tied in legacy code and tech debt, that is why it has that image. Only so few modern green field C++ projects with latest standard out there.

It's getting harder and harder to justify using even the most bleeding edge C++ for a new project.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#183

Post by inetknght »

flohofwoe wrote: post #133
inetknght wrote: post #55

As a talented C++ developer... yes there is a dearth of talented C++ developers. I've been to several C++ conferences. Even there, many of the engineers end up learning "new" things that are IMO basic concepts that have been around for years. I recently went through a hiring phase for Senior C++ engineers and most of the applicants were familiar with old tech. It was really disheartening to me to realize how many "se…

That's the problem with the C++ ecosystem, it is actually many vastly different ecosystems mashed together. It's impossible to find a "C++ developer" because there is no agreed upon "one C++ style". It seems what you're looking for is a "C++ developer who likes to write the same C++ style as myself" ;)

> It seems what you're looking for is a "C++ developer who likes to write the same C++ style as myself" ;)

No, I'm perfectly content with someone writing C++ in a different style.

What I'm not content with is someone who uses old code without a technical reason why. C style arrays, for example, are 100% inferior to std::array. Old loops with indices are maybe 80% (off the cuff guesstimate) inferior to ranged-for. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to use `delete` in any C++ code that doesn't directly handle allocations (and so, very esoteric), and simlarly for `new`. But I keep seeing these things (and many other examples) show up in newly-written C++ code from "experienced" developers. Maybe 90% of the time they'll fix their code when I point out the modern solution and what problems the modern solution solves, and the last 10% of the time ends up in a technical argument about the merit of the old code (and that's fine as long as there is a technical merit for it).

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#184

Post by ativzzz »

zabzonk wrote: post #149
stu2b50 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ruby still has relevance as it was the lingua franca of the 2010s ish startup scene. These days those startups have become veritable big tech companies in their own right - Stripe, Uber, AirBnB, and so forth. While many of those companies have started integrating other languages they still have massive legacy ruby codebases and demand then for ruby engineers.

all those companies you mention seem to me to have a 50/50 chance of going down the tubes. not because of their use of ruby, of course. still, i don't see any company started today to base their software on ruby. probably just me being wrong.

as a rails dev, if I were to start a new project today I would still pick rails. It makes building web apps a breeze. The technology is mature, stable, active and still staying modern in terms of integration with modern JS

you start running into problems as you scale, but the reality is you will run into scaling problems regardless of what technology you use, and the ability to move quickly and iterate is much more important for new projects than solving scaling problems before they exist

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#185

Post by giraffe_lady »

brink wrote: post #164
giraffe_lady wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow sounds rough buddy

May not be rough for me, but it's rough for @ChoooCole. You're being dismissive, acting like the ideology is harmless. She has to live with the consequences of the actions that the pride community influenced her to take at 16. It's not harmless.

yes it is lol

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#186

Post by jack_h »

ryandrake wrote: post #103
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees may be leaving the embedded space Embedded opportunities have been slowly shrinking for years. For whatever combination of reasons, a lot of employers think that embedded work is easy or otherwise doesn’t require a large budget. It’s increasingly bizarre to get a well-designed IoT device with a very polished mobile app and web UI, then struggle with hardware factory resets and firmware upgrades because th…

Many hardware companies still see software as just another line item on the BOM: Like a screw or a gasket. It's something you build cheaply or buy from a supplier and sprinkle it on the product somewhere on the assembly line. These hardware companies have no concept of typical measures of software quality, building an ecosystem, release management, sometimes even no concept of source control. They tell an overworked…

At a previous company our firmware was literally called by a part number. So I would regularly work on the repos 5400-520, 5400-521, 5400-524, 5400-526, etc.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#187

Post by analognoise »

sentinalien wrote: post #73
synergy20 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

system programming is a tough and low reward path indeed, be it in c/c++ or whatever. embedded/EE is worse. unless you made into the big few(google,amazon,meta,apple,microsoft,...), salary will plummet by half in general, or even more.

This is true, trying to switch from FPGA's/RTL Design to something higher up the stack over the next few months for this reason. My employer does seem to have great difficulty hiring anyone with these skillsets but funnily enough, the salaries never seem to improve.

Oh my god this is me.

I'm not sure what to do, but I'm trying to get the hell out.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#188

Post by pyb »

twic wrote: post #155
mooreds wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this to say: if you want C++ programmers, you need to pay competitive enough rates to pull them away from there. I'd modify this to say "All of this to say: if you want programmers, you need to pay competitive rates." I worked in real estate for a while (as a software dev) and my boss, who was a realtor, always said "there's no house problem that price can't solve". The labor analogy for me is "there's no la…

150k plus bonus. It's at a quant firm, so the bonus is likely to be ~50% of base salary if you do okay, and multiples of that if you do great.

Maybe, but C++ developers who haven't worked at hedge funds before wouldn't know it from this advert, and probably won't apply.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#189

Post by sigi64 »

I was a C++ programmer for 25 years. Last 3 years, I'm using Rust language in my daily job and for all my hobby projects. I will not return to work in C++ again. No money can make me to change my decision. Nowadays, programming is a pure joy for me again. This was not the case when I had to work with C++.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#190

Post by [deleted] »

zabzonk wrote: post #65
deaddabe wrote: post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

a few issues here - c++ is not used that widely in embedded (most prefer c or a small c++ subset). and ruby? i can't remember the last time i saw a post about ruby here. and finance is huge.

[deleted]
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