141–150 of 869 posts
Looks like C++ developers / holdouts will be commanding 400-600k salaries in the comming decades, like those arcane COBOL wizards still tinkering on banking mainframes.
This is literally my career wind-down/retirement plan. I'll be 62 when the Year-2038 problem hits, and they're going to need to overturn some rocks to find C and C++ systems programmers who still can read from a monitor.
> People are seemingly scared away from the language by a terrible stigma: the notion that it is a legacy program. My personal experience: Universities (in Germany) simply stopped teaching C++. Most of it is now Python or C#.
Would not say it's true at least for robotics related fields. I personally taught C++ some years ago and the new guys have taken over since, adopting and improving on my course. There are many specializations where C++ is still a must.
Looks like C++ developers / holdouts will be commanding 400-600k salaries in the comming decades, like those arcane COBOL wizards still tinkering on banking mainframes.
Why not be an proficient Python developer and make the same compensation[0] with better docs, better libraries, better codebases, no compilation annoyances[1], easier to read code, and fewer not-defined-by-the-spec weirdness?
C++ would have to pay 4x what Python pays for me to even consider doing it again. It literally makes me sad when I write software in it. Especially the libraries.
[0] Mid-six digits as an IC is very doable in North America.
[1] If you want to count the occasional Cython thing, fine. Almost no compilation annoyances.
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Yes, the embedded space pays terrible, and the employers don't seem great on the whole. When I was at Google I got to work on embedded stuff and really liked it; but I was getting a Google salary. When I left Google I pursued IoT and embedded jobs a bit and while I was not expecting Google level compensation at all, I was astounded at what was going on there, pay wise. General software eng back end jobs pay better. T…
I did a few a few months of contracting at a major voting machine company. They make a significant portion of all US voting machines. They had 4 developer teams Firmware (C++ where I was), UI (web tech on a voting machine), poll book (java), and a web/support team. Before I was hired in a massive influx of contractors each team was something like 3~5 people, except UI which was a new team with the contractor hiring s…
Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…
> Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. But these are all implemented in C++ or C? Those aren't low-paying jobs.
Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…
You've presented a false dichotomy between "web" and "embedded systems". C++ fuels the engines behind Python and JavaScript. Databases, compilers, machine learning libraries: all C++ and actively maintained.
There's lots of C++ programmers out there. But they're bottled up in FAANG, I think. So you have to be able to compete with that. Working at Google is on the whole a lot of C++. Major parts are moving to Go, certainly. But there's absolutely giant code-bases of pretty cleanly written C++ services, and most Googlers are quite proficient in it and there's whole teams at Google that work on improving C++ standards and t…
From what I understand, Google is really about a crippled subset of C++, that people jokingly call "C+-". I ran a C++ shop for 25 years. I used to program in it, but stopped, many moons ago. The new C++ is a huge change from what I knew. I am expecting to see a lot of hate for the language, in this thread. Regardless, it is a very powerful language, and it is not for the faint of heart. I attended a Swift conference,…
I never apply to C++ jobs despite those 6 years of experience because I think my knowledge there is stuck in 1999 and I have no idea about the STL.
> Hickling pointed to Java, which has long “seemed to be replacing C++ itself,” but hasn't. This is inaccurate. Java completely ate C++'s lunch in the enterprise space back around the turn of the millennium. Java doesn't need to continue to eat into C++'s marketshare in other domains, because it has more than enough mindshare to sustain itself (there are more Java programmers than C++ programmers), and its very exist…
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but now that everything is run in a docker container anyway, doesn't most of Java's appeal of "write once, run anywhere" from the turn of the millennium go away? At this point all it has is garbage collection and a network effect.
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a few issues here - c++ is not used that widely in embedded (most prefer c or a small c++ subset). and ruby? i can't remember the last time i saw a post about ruby here. and finance is huge.
Ruby still has relevance as it was the lingua franca of the 2010s ish startup scene. These days those startups have become veritable big tech companies in their own right - Stripe, Uber, AirBnB, and so forth. While many of those companies have started integrating other languages they still have massive legacy ruby codebases and demand then for ruby engineers.
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Perhaps in the past, but they aren't too terribly far behind C++20 and a bunch of stuff that has been added to the language over time (like stringviews) was made available much earlier via library support. I don't think I've ever heard this "C+-" joke at Google despite working in C++ here for a very long time.
I heard it quite frequently, but not from people that worked there. I believe that there was a published style guide. My experience is years old, but I remember seeing that it was basically “C++ without objects.” It’s a great language, and the 20 additions bring it right on par with other languages, in terms of type and memory safety.
I've never heard anything remotely similar to "avoid objects" here.