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The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

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Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#81

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #58
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, Google is really about a crippled subset of C++, that people jokingly call "C+-". I ran a C++ shop for 25 years. I used to program in it, but stopped, many moons ago. The new C++ is a huge change from what I knew. I am expecting to see a lot of hate for the language, in this thread. Regardless, it is a very powerful language, and it is not for the faint of heart. I attended a Swift conference,…

All sane C++ codebases must use a defined subset of the language. Google's is one that works for them, with some pretty strong standardization. It's a good set of compromises. But you won't get far programming in it if you don't know the broader semantics of the language. I didn't do C++ from about 2003 to 2013. When I came back I was delighted . It's so much better.

I liken C++ (and other "industrial" languages, like PHP), to "advanced" tools, like the specialty tools and brands, that only professional mechanics know, like OTC. You won't get them at Home Depot.

The language definitely has its niche, and I am glad to see it not being used for standard GUI programming, anymore.

But for that niche, there's nothing better, and it's a big niche.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#83

Post by brink »

datalopers wrote: post #42
mkl95 wrote: post #25

Rust should make the pool of C++ developers decrease exponentially in the coming decades. There's little reason to code a greenfield project in C++ unless it involves leveraging some niche libraries, and those niche libraries will eventually have Rust equivalents.

C++ doesn’t require you attend an annual furry convention.

Or be a part of a discord group that flies a pride flag in your face for 6 months of the year. A helping of ideology is what I've really been looking for in a programming language.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#85

Post by spacemadness »

stavros wrote: post #35

The pool "running dry" would imply that you can't find talented C++ developers at any price. If that's not the case, you just aren't paying enough. The pool of jobs that will pay me $10m/year is also running dry, we really should do something about that.

The same has been said for embedded systems work while the jobs tend to pay 20-30% below webdev.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#86

Post by cmrdporcupine »

sentinalien wrote: post #73
synergy20 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

system programming is a tough and low reward path indeed, be it in c/c++ or whatever. embedded/EE is worse. unless you made into the big few(google,amazon,meta,apple,microsoft,...), salary will plummet by half in general, or even more.

This is true, trying to switch from FPGA's/RTL Design to something higher up the stack over the next few months for this reason. My employer does seem to have great difficulty hiring anyone with these skillsets but funnily enough, the salaries never seem to improve.

This is what I find astounding.

I wonder how much is just EEs looking at SWE resumes and going "why would I pay that much for this?! writing code isn't that hard" I definitely get that vibe from some of the local hw-eng companies.

And they may not be wrong, but.. sorry, that's supply and demand. If I have to go write stupid NodeJS stuff to get paid decently, I guess I'll have to go do that.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#87

Post by orwin »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #30

There's lots of C++ programmers out there. But they're bottled up in FAANG, I think. So you have to be able to compete with that. Working at Google is on the whole a lot of C++. Major parts are moving to Go, certainly. But there's absolutely giant code-bases of pretty cleanly written C++ services, and most Googlers are quite proficient in it and there's whole teams at Google that work on improving C++ standards and t…

From what I understand, Google is really about a crippled subset of C++, that people jokingly call "C+-". I ran a C++ shop for 25 years. I used to program in it, but stopped, many moons ago. The new C++ is a huge change from what I knew. I am expecting to see a lot of hate for the language, in this thread. Regardless, it is a very powerful language, and it is not for the faint of heart. I attended a Swift conference,…

Ah! "C+-" is what i called Golang when i first tried it around 2014-2015. I guess i can see where some ideas came from.

(Still a very good language if you know what to do with it)

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#89

Post by rr808 »

codegladiator wrote: post #16
volkk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting. i've always found that the basic CRUD apps that most python jobs end up being are far more boring than HFT or systems level

The grass on the other side

Yeah this is likely true. Its also some randomness if you end up on a good project & team or not.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#90

Post by ptero »

There are now more options for many tasks that used to land squarely into the C++ land: rust for low level and low latency stuff; python for a high level glue for some latest algorithms; ruby, JS for web.

On the other hand, C++ grew into a very complex language. For example if someone is not well versed in template metaprogramming meaningfully contributing to an existing project leveraging it could take a while.

So when a new project starts, C++ is rarely the top choice. And as the job pool shrinks, developer pool does, too; usually even faster, as younger developers do not want to be known as experts in a complicated legacy language. My 2c.

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