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The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

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Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#21

Post by soinus »

rr808 wrote: post #4

I switched from C++ because the type of work is typically boring. Its either system level stuff, or HFT, usually some market data system or similar. Not to mention its likely a big old system with legacy code base. Seeing the salaries now I kinda regret switching out, but the companies and business problems you get in Python & Java are much more interesting.

As a personal anecdote, all of my jobs were actually very interesting with lots of interesting design problems spanning from low level systems to very high level design decisions. Granted I worked in automotive and later in AR and have been lucky enough to be at the start of some projects, but there definitely are interesting projects for C++ out there.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#22

Post by LeanderK »

stingraycharles wrote: post #5
Kelteseth wrote: post #2

> People are seemingly scared away from the language by a terrible stigma: the notion that it is a legacy program. My personal experience: Universities (in Germany) simply stopped teaching C++. Most of it is now Python or C#.

Did they? I know that when I did my CS in early 2000s, they didn’t even teach a specific language — you were expected to pick one up yourself in your own time. Perhaps it’s just part of a bigger zeitgeist that people just care less about C++ than they did before, faster than the actual job pool is decreasing?

That hasn't changed, you are still expected to pick one up yourself except (for me) Java, the first and only language that really got "taught". Maybe that was C++ a few decades ago or something. We had to do a little bit of C for some system programming lecture.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#23

Post by cmrdporcupine »

deaddabe wrote: post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

Yes, the embedded space pays terrible, and the employers don't seem great on the whole. When I was at Google I got to work on embedded stuff and really liked it; but I was getting a Google salary. When I left Google I pursued IoT and embedded jobs a bit and while I was not expecting Google level compensation at all, I was astounded at what was going on there, pay wise. General software eng back end jobs pay better.

The problem is I really like writing C++ (and Rust, etc.)! So I'm cultivating other "systems programming" type career paths; DB internals, have always fascinated me, so I'm trying that direction. Working fulltime in Rust now, but it's hard to find work there that isn't crypto-tainted.

Other people have pointed out that lower pay in embedded has to do with the influence of EE salaries. Which are sadly lower than they rightfully should be.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#25

Post by mkl95 »

Rust should make the pool of C++ developers decrease exponentially in the coming decades. There's little reason to code a greenfield project in C++ unless it involves leveraging some niche libraries, and those niche libraries will eventually have Rust equivalents.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#26

Post by antegamisou »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #23
deaddabe wrote: post #9

Because Python pays more. Or Javascript. Or Ruby. More demand, more salary. Apart from finance, pay is lower than web languages. And finance is small. Embedded systems programming, that also uses the language, pays 30% less than web jobs from my last job hunting period. Employees may be leaving the embedded space (and C++) for web tech because of this. This is the feeling I get from my local job market (western Europ…

Yes, the embedded space pays terrible, and the employers don't seem great on the whole. When I was at Google I got to work on embedded stuff and really liked it; but I was getting a Google salary. When I left Google I pursued IoT and embedded jobs a bit and while I was not expecting Google level compensation at all, I was astounded at what was going on there, pay wise. General software eng back end jobs pay better. T…

You may also look into Kernel Programming for a lucrative systems programming career. It is more C and low-level oriented though.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#27

Post by lumost »

Kelteseth wrote: post #2

> People are seemingly scared away from the language by a terrible stigma: the notion that it is a legacy program. My personal experience: Universities (in Germany) simply stopped teaching C++. Most of it is now Python or C#.

Having recently learned C++/C.. I don't see why it would be taught as a first language outside of specializations. The gains from C/C++ coding are vastly outweighed by the costs. The reality is that there is no good, agreed upon standard in C++ for how to manage memory... how would you teach this to junior engineers at university?

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#29

Post by bluedino »

dsign wrote: post #15

The last time I searched for jobs, there were two competing automotive makers among the prospective employers. The one that offered the C++ position for programming Lidar systems offered a lower salary than the one that just wanted a generalist to wrangle scripts and systems. Beats me.

I found it equally hilarious that (at the last place I was) the Python devops jobs paid 50% more than the core developers of the company's core product.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#30

Post by cmrdporcupine »

There's lots of C++ programmers out there. But they're bottled up in FAANG, I think. So you have to be able to compete with that.

Working at Google is on the whole a lot of C++. Major parts are moving to Go, certainly. But there's absolutely giant code-bases of pretty cleanly written C++ services, and most Googlers are quite proficient in it and there's whole teams at Google that work on improving C++ standards and techniques etc etc etc. Not to mention the Chromium codebase as well, which I also worked in. I get the impression this is also a thing at Facebook.

All of this to say: if you want C++ programmers, you need to pay competitive enough rates to pull them away from there.

(That said, if you're hiring for C++, I'm looking.. and I don't expect a Google salary, just a fair one. I'm not the most elite C++ programmer in the world, but I can write good code and understand your system...)

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