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Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

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Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#31

Who actually wants to end Section 230? Most of the complaints I've heard about it have just been that it should be changed to only apply to platforms (which don't censor), and not to publishers (which do).

> Who actually wants to end Section 230?

Both Biden and Trump, for a start: https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/09/biden_tech_reform_sec...

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#32

The First Amendment applies only to government action. This author is seriously confused.

The First Amendment applies only to government, but the idea of free speech applies to everyone. It has also come out recently that social media platforms are receiving directions from the US government about what content to take down, making them state actors.

This is an article about the implications of the First Amendment and their applicability to private entities, not about the amorphous concept of "free speech".

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone can know what's going to happen with or without their participation, but granting that for the sake of argument, he also quoted "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action". (Edit: also "organize actions that spill over into the physical world") The article, IMO, made it clear enough that information that causes violence but wasn't intended to cause violence is protected by the 1st…

The bullet's heading is "incitement", the purpose of the bullet is to explain the clear "incitement" standard that Twitter could rely on to block content likely to cause harm, and we've reached a point where we're using the word "inciting" to define it. Like I said, this is a hash of an argument. There is a clear legal standard for incitement. Sacks hasn't articulated it. Either he doesn't know what it is, or he does…

That's a fine objection to his proposal (though perhaps better with examples of information protected by the 1st that you want Twitter to ban).

But I don't think it's a fair criticism of his article. I clearly understood from his writing that the "Incitement" exception only covers information intended to cause violence in the near future.

I don't know if he's familiar with the precise legal language, but even if he is, it wouldn't be appropriate to use it in this article for laypeople. He's using common English.

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#34

> Fighting Words. In the 1942 case Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, the Supreme Court held that speech is unprotected if it constitutes “fighting words,” which are defined as speech that “tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace,” through the use of “personally abusive” language that “when addressed to the ordinary citizen, is, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke a violent reaction.” Cer…

It's odd that the 'General Partner and Co-Founder of Craft Ventures. Previously: Founder/CEO of Yammer. Original COO of PayPal.' came to such a mistaken belief regarding fighting words in modern legal practice.

Carelessness in fact checking seems to becoming more common even among otherwise competent people.

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The First Amendment applies only to government, but the idea of free speech applies to everyone. It has also come out recently that social media platforms are receiving directions from the US government about what content to take down, making them state actors.

This is an article about the implications of the First Amendment and their applicability to private entities, not about the amorphous concept of "free speech".

Yet for practical purposes, the US gov has been interfering and dictating which speech can be posted on social media. Both twitter and facebook have takedown portals for government officials. I suspect others do as well. Back door channels between gov agencies and companies exist and influence what gets exposure. Such channels even led to a major news organization being censored and temp-banned, despite having a legitimate story of national interest. This is a major issue, and I'll tell you why, even though I believe I don't have to:

In the past, journalists were the check against government over-reach, corruption, and fraud. That has been thrown out the window, as it is clear to the objective observer that the majority of media and government work very closely together to push a coordinated narrative, and have been for some time.

When citizen journalists emerged, whistleblowers and independent bloggers began publishing stories (some of them trash, others being very good at what they do) - yet they rely on social media for reach. If their stories oppose the narrative of both mainstream media and government, they are labeled (without any real evidence) as misinformation or "russian" propaganda. This in itself is propaganda.

Frankly, I'm tired of the nanny state. Neither myself or any other functional adult needs media, government, or party to tell us what to think, do, or say. The whole mess is antithetical to the core principles of the United States.

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#36
Both Twitter and Facebook have already been declared and used as "public forums" not only in US legal cases but also in other western ones. The only issue with S230 is that companies abuse(d, some still do) the platform & publisher status, without transparency. Full transparency will probably never be achieved realistically speaking (it is[or should be] a matter of transparency towards the end user - the user of the forum - , not towards the government), so the only sensible thing to do is take away the ability of the platforms to modify/erase in anyway content from the end users, IF the said platform is legally considered a "public forum". Who considers that and issues like "is any new-comer entitled to such status" is the next headache in this whole ordeal,because it will probably constitute new bureaucracy. The fine line will always be between companies and the government since both are different entities. However, imo, 1A should precede both in priority, otherwise it's the start of blurring the said lines & the decline of american society.(See China: de facto a fascist regime)

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#37
post #5

I don't see how anything will happen on 230. Conservatives want to change it to allow any kind of speech including racism and fake news and the platform can't censor it and liberals want to ban anything they consider hate speech or "not woke" speech.

As said somewhere else on here, "i've never seen 'hate speech' that isn't actual hate speech"

I've seen "hate speech" be defined as anything "I" (the reader) don't like and is offensive to "me" (the same reader). So shrug I just don't see why it's not up to the platform (as it is currently) about what they want to host, aside from illegal stuff like imminent physical threats, terrorism, national security, and similar.

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#38
Sacks is a very intelligent guy with good insight on tech markets, but he's also deeply partisan and his motivation for the reasoning in this article can't be disentangled from his political agenda.

Though, what's particularly interesting about this article is that Sacks is a friend of Elon's and as a result has now become directly involved with the reshaping of Twitter. I am certain Sacks no longer emphatically supports the idea that "these tech behemoths are too large and powerful, pose a threat to democracy and free speech, and need to be reined in for the good of America" now that it applies to his friends.

Re: Section 230: Mend it, don’t end it (2020)

#39
IANAL, but I'm not sure how the proposed change would have any effect. If the whole idea is to treat digital content platforms the same as distributors, distributors can stop carrying publishers and specific works on their own whims regardless of whether or not they are protected speech subject to the contracts that they have in place with those whose works they are distributing. The distributors don't have a government-backed monopoly that might come along with requirements that they adhere to laws that prevent the government limiting speech. You only have recourse if the contract in place between you and the platform stipulates the terms of distributing your content. It is my understanding that this law and the updated change don't specify that the government can compel you to produce specific speech, they specify that the government can't punish you for the speech of others that you distribute.

Am I missing important context? If someone can point to resources that would better explain this to me, I'd appreciate it.

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