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As last module docks, China completes its space station

nytimes.com

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Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#271

Post by bayesian_horse »

Ekaros wrote: post #164
bayesian_horse wrote: post #96

50 years late to the space race..

They might be late to join, but when the rest of competition have started racing towards start line... Does it matter.

It matters when people think China is a High-Tech powerhouse. Until 2017 they weren't even able to produce ball-pens domestically. They had to institute a five year long program to figure out how to make the small balls that go into the tip of it.

Also China is unapolegitically militarizing it's space presence, and that should bother you a lot more than any US ambitions in that regard.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#272

Post by pishpash »

throwaway4good wrote: post #268
russli1993 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the features I know from the Chinese space station - Solar panels smaller in area than ISS but produces similar amount of power, indicating much more efficient solar panels - Ion thrusters to keep space in orbit - Automated docking of cargo and crew capsule. Semi-automated docking of large station components like the 23ton labs - A robotic arm similar to ISS that walk along the joint points on the station. It…

Just imagine all that effort and resources being spent on the International Space Station instead. I wonder were we, the combined humanity, could have been in terms of space exploration, if we just could have been bothered to work together.

Then you imagine, if two groups in a company bothered to work together.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#273

Post by funnymony »

choonway wrote: post #150
pavlov wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A torus shape has no sharp edges and can be pretty useful in space if it rotates.

from a mechanical engineering standpoint, a torus is also easier to construct than a sphere.

How so?

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#274

Post by bayesian_horse »

pharke wrote: post #116
bayesian_horse wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer countries to cooperate more. There's no need to have dozens of national space stations or even launch systems. Some diversity is Ok, but it's just too damn expensive.

It'll remain expensive if only countries are launching things. If commercial space launches continue to pick up steam it will get cheaper.

Nation states are the biggest customers in any case. And there is blurry line between what is a "commercial" offering.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#275

Post by bayesian_horse »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #106
bayesian_horse wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer countries to cooperate more. There's no need to have dozens of national space stations or even launch systems. Some diversity is Ok, but it's just too damn expensive.

I think that was the hope for ISS in general with the rationale being that the cost would be just too expensive for any one country to bear. And ISS, not completely unlike the globalization and connections between countries would force some modicum of cooperation. I think we were way too optimistic about ourselves as a species. Our cooperation does not last long.

The ISS still makes Russians cooperate with other nations. That's quite remarkable given the underfunded state of Roskosmos and the insane dictatorship that is the Russian Federation.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#276

Post by funnymony »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #23
Victerius wrote: post #8

I hope mankind can move beyond building space stations as a handful of modular small cylinders, and start building space stations the way they appear in science fiction: dozens of rooms, cubical exteriors, hallways, human height doors that open and close, stairs, elevators, hangars, a nuclear reactor instead of solar panels, and modules that rotate around an axis to create artificial gravity. And a more diversified c…

Unfortunately it’s about $2,720 per 2.2 lbs in even the best case scenario.

Translation: 2.2 lbs is around 1kg

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#277

Post by bayesian_horse »

deltasevennine wrote: post #238
bayesian_horse wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer countries to cooperate more. There's no need to have dozens of national space stations or even launch systems. Some diversity is Ok, but it's just too damn expensive.

Yeah I agree. But competition breeds advancement. It has roots from capitalism all the way down to natural selection and survival of the fittest. It works. There's no doubt in my mind that part of what's driving China in not just the space race is the fact that they want to beat the US.

In space exploration competition is just wasted effort. There may be some benefit, but only when the majority is dropping the ball. Cost effectiveness is already a major driver in innovation, and even inside a national space program there always is a high degree of competition between ideas and concepts.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#278

Post by bayesian_horse »

nordsieck wrote: post #107
bayesian_horse wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Licensing" is a strong word when applied to China. I'm pretty sure they have advanced a lot and may have surpassed Russian technology in some areas. As far as I understand it, they have more diverse launch vehicles, for example. Hard to compare what constitutes "better", as long as it works. I don't think they are as cost-efficient as SpaceX or even Atlas and Ariane systems.

> I don't think they are as cost-efficient as SpaceX or even Atlas and Ariane systems. It seems unlikely anyone is as cost-efficient as Falcon 9 with reuse. It appears to me, as an outsider, that Atlas and Ariane are 4-5 times as expensive to operate. There is probably plenty of room for China to operate more efficiently than that. Especially with their launch volume, which is second only to SpaceX.

China is not a high-tech nation. There is a thin patina of bling-bling but underneath they have big trouble between corruption and nobody else trusting them.

China has lots of money (for now...) so they can throw a lot of resources at the problem. In China, quick public successes always take precedence over doing it right.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#279

Post by [deleted] »

diskzero wrote: post #34

Does anyone know to what extent China has advanced the state of the Soviet technology that they have (I assume) licensed? I have been to the Russian Star City training facility, Baikonur Cosmodrome and been in the full-size Mir training module and the Chinese station components look very similar. I am sure getting good information is difficult, but perhaps someone here has some more info.

[deleted]

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#280

Post by throwaway4good »

throwaway4good wrote: post #270
diskzero wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the super informative reply. I am hoping as there is more activity on the space station, that more information will be coming out. It would be nice to be able to see something similar to the ESA, NASA and even Roscosmos launch feeds and Q&A sessions.

Plenty coverage exists in Chinese from children shows to academia, and you can also show up on Hainan island to watch a launch. However it doesn’t get much coverage in western media beyond a Cold War / environmental risk angle.

This is a clip together from the live tv coverage of the latest launch:

https://youtu.be/81Ova5fo0vM

Reminds me of the coverage of the US launches I watched as a kid.

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