Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

github.com

11–20 of 49 posts

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#12

(a) >> Adjusting price is the single most effective lever a business can use to achieve product/market fit, (b) >> and there's a strong correlation price nimbleness and market success. Would it be possible to expand on and/or provide additional sources for each of these claims, since while I get that given all other aspects being equal that price is frequently a defining factor, but my understanding is that even then…

> Might be wrong, but brief review of this appears to show the “thesis” of PriceOps is yield-based metered feature pricing

The "thesis" of PriceOps is less "you must have metered feature pricing", and more "you should design your infrastructure so that you can learn from and adjust pricing in the future". In other words, expect that your product, customers, and landscape will change, and understand that the pricing scheme (ie, what you charge for, how much you charge, and how you bundle prices into a packaged plan) will almost certainly need to change as well.

> Do you have an related research to link to?

Here's a selection of links to check out if you're interested in learning more about this subject. I haven't carefully reviewed each one of these to make sure they're 100% what you're asking for, but they're all things I've read and found helpful studying this topic, and many have links to more research and primary sources. Hope you find it helpful :)

On unlocking growth with pricing:

https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/11/turn-your-startups-pricing...

https://www.nfx.com/post/the-hidden-world-of-pricing

https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/saas-pricing-strategy

https://www.bvp.com/atlas/why-pricing-deserves-as-much-itera...

More from BVP, this pricing course is amazing btw, I highly recommend checking it out:

https://www.bvp.com/pricing-course

https://www.bvp.com/assets/media/the-startup-pricing-journey...

https://www.bvp.com/atlas/five-pros-and-four-cons-of-usage-b...

(They led npm's series A, I saw first hand the Bessemer brain trust is really impressive.)

"How to price" resources:

https://databox.com/how-to-price-saas-product

https://www2.deloitte.com/xe/en/insights/focus/industry-4-0/...

https://a16z.com/2021/03/11/bottom-up-pricing-packaging-let-...

On benefits/pitfalls of usage-based pricing specifically:

https://review.firstround.com/dont-let-growth-hurt-your-marg...

https://openviewpartners.com/blog/usage-based-pricing-playbo...

https://www.scalevp.com/blog/the-opportunity-in-usage-based-...

https://openviewpartners.com/blog/saas-pricing-and-packaging...

https://adilaijaz.medium.com/6-questions-to-ask-before-adopt...

Some more lessons and case studies:

https://zimtik.com/en/posts/lessons-learned-on-saas-pricing

https://twitter.com/Suhail/status/1418457605437943811

https://arnon.dk/5-things-i-learned-developing-billing-syste...

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#13
This looks very cool! Stripe is very hard in 2022. We just integrated such for our VS Code extension.

With our current architecture (a very simple one) a simple thing such as iterating on the price of our product requires changing an env var on Vercel. Not complicated, but feels cumbersome for changing a price. Iterating this on a pricing.json file feels easier.

Things get more complex if we decide to do something like giving the user the possibility of choosing between a monthly or a yearly subscription (with a variable quantity, because we charge per seat). That would imply a code refactor.

Would tier.run help us with that????

Really excited about feature flags as well. How would this work exactly? Do I set up which features belong to every plan on the pricing.json file, and then consume your SDK on the frontend to only show the tier to a certain category of paying user?

We currently handle that by querying a SQL table of paying users, and if the email address of the authed user belongs to the table, we show the feature, else not.

I also saw you want to build your product as an Auth0 action. Would that be used for this use case?

Anways, congrats on the launch!!

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#14
very cool!

Since you’re well within the power user category, any feedback on how to make the Stripe APIs better? Either for customers’ uses or for your own. I hear you on the object ids :)

Happy to hear here or maddox@stripe.com

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#15
post #14

very cool! Since you’re well within the power user category, any feedback on how to make the Stripe APIs better? Either for customers’ uses or for your own. I hear you on the object ids :) Happy to hear here or maddox@stripe.com

As a Stripe customer, I think that the principles on which Tier were built constitute best practices that could have been taught to me by Stripe docs.

For instance, the idea that plans should be treated as immutable (and versioned when changes are desired) and that we should attach application code to features (and not directly to plans), having a lawyer of abstraction that links features to plans, could have been laid out to us at the very beginning of our integration.

They seem obvious in retrospect, but one is not guaranteed to derive them on first try; the fact that they wrote https://priceops.org/4-entitlement is telling.

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#17
From the Pricing JSON page, on the 'Why Each Plan Must Have At Least One Feature' question, it says:

> Without this restriction, it would be significantly more expensive to fetch your pricing model from Stripe's data.

I didn't quite get that. I understood that application code should reference features (and not plans directly) so it becomes easier to change plan structure (via https://priceops.org/4-entitlement), but that's not the reasoning laid out here, is it?

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#18

(a) >> Adjusting price is the single most effective lever a business can use to achieve product/market fit, (b) >> and there's a strong correlation price nimbleness and market success. Would it be possible to expand on and/or provide additional sources for each of these claims, since while I get that given all other aspects being equal that price is frequently a defining factor, but my understanding is that even then…

> Might be wrong, but brief review of this appears to show the “thesis” of PriceOps is yield-based metered feature pricing The "thesis" of PriceOps is less "you must have metered feature pricing", and more "you should design your infrastructure so that you can learn from and adjust pricing in the future". In other words, expect that your product, customers, and landscape will change, and understand that the pricing s…

Thanks, appreciate links, clearly spent time researching topic, curious what you found of use, and will check out all the links.

That said, to me feels like you’re making claims, then when confronted about them not actually addressing them.

Yes, there are situations systems like this work, for example, when there’s finite volume of inventory and market is willing to pay more to gain access to that inventory as the availability of that inventory shrinks; hotels, taxis, tickets, AD inventory, etc.

On flip side, long list of businesses that adding your code would provide provide no significant value, but instead just add technically debt.

In my experience, even in situations where yield management makes sense, it’s rarely a defining path to product market fit, but an opportunity to optimization revenue.

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#19
Very interesting approach, and nice to see someone tackling that problem area! You see a hundred blog posts of "why you should experiment with your pricing", but actually doing that is often such a pain that nobody ends up doing that (and admittedly the reason why I would have shied away from such projects in the past).

Two things that come to mind:

- What are your plans like regarding the integration of entitlement checking in the service and SDK? As far as I can tell, that's still a missing piece? I really love how oso[0] has managed to separate the authorization checking from the authorization definition via their DSL and SDKs. Ever since I saw that, I was wondering if a very similar system could work for entitlement checking.

- I think where your system could provide a lot of benefit would be in help tracking usage metrics that can be harder to calculate (and with that more of a pain to use). It's already nice not having to implement a simpler "number of action N taken the last billing period" metric. However something like a "N number of active users last billing period", where you now would also have to keep track of which users you have already seen before to prevent double-counting them becomes increasingly annoying to implement.

[0]: https://www.osohq.com/

Re: Show HN: Tier.run – Terraform for Stripe

#20
congrats guys, i've been interested in UBB for a while and i think an "as code" type of approach makes a ton of sense (and maybe can build a low code layer on top). this is the killer line:

> With this, changes to your pricing model don't require changes to your application code or business processes.

i would go so far as to produce a scenario or skit or whatever to use this all over your marketing materials as any growth PM or founder would immediately understand this one

Post reply on HN