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Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

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Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#121

Post by ephbit »

greenthrow wrote: post #77
jonwest wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about using hydrogen as a generator for an EV like in the Hyundai 74 concept? I’m far from an expert but something like that, at least intuitively, feels like a nice compromise with having portability of fuel, but still allowing for alternative power sources via electricity (like if grid power was sourced via solar, hydro, wind, etc).

Hydrogen makes no sense for passenger vehicles. It requires building out a massive infrastructure that doesn't exist and is just far less efficient than storing the elecricity in a battery. Check out this video for more on where Hydrogen does and does not make sense: https://youtu.be/JlOCS95Jvjc

Now what happens as soon as there _is indeed_ sufficient H2 refuelling infrastructure for trucks? (Assuming that it will happen for long haul trucks because BEV trucks will not replace diesel powered ones in the long term)

Doesn't that make FCEV cars look a lot more convenient than BEV cars?

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#122

Post by ephbit »

bombcar wrote: post #62
vitus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. A modern sedan might get 40 miles to the gallon, but only has a tank of maybe 13 gallons (for a range of 500 miles / 800km). Meanwhile the bus gets "only" 6 mpg but has a 200-gallon tank to compensate.

Once tank size gets to a certain point (the "range" of the driver/passengers for example) the only reason to get bigger is to reduce refueling time or because of fuel availability limitations. This is part of the reason super long flights aren't as common as might be expected, because it's often significantly cheaper to have a layover, even if the plane could actually do the flight in one go - having to carry the sec…

For hydrogen tanks in cars the weight is not really an issue. Volume is much more so.

Comparison to an airplane - where weight is basically everything - is pretty useless here.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#123

Post by ephbit »

valine wrote: post #6

The problem with hydrogen is the lack of infrastructure. EVs have suffered from the same problem too but are arguably over the hump. Starting from zero again with range anxiety and no fueling stations sounds exhausting.

Electric grid capacity will be an interesting field to watch over the next 2 decades.

It's not like power lines all over the world have massive capacity reserves left. And with heat pumps becoming highly relevant right now for heating homes, there's going to be a lot of additional load on the grid.

Yes, EVs and heat pumps do also offer very useful application as flexible load to consume when supply is high and be switched off when electricity supply is low. But all this combined will make electric grids even more essential for keeping everyday life running.

H2 on the other hand with its inherent buffering effects would take some of these pressures off the electrical grid.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#124

Post by alexvoda »

vardump wrote: post #7

A thinly veiled advertisement for Kraftwerk Tubes, whose founder Sascha Kühn has at least once before completely failed to deliver. https://www.businessinsider.de/gruenderszene/allgemein/kraft... Google Translate link: https://www-businessinsider-de.translate.goog/gruenderszene/...

> A thinly veiled advertisement for Kraftwerk Tubes

Did they test it on the Autobahn?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-G28iyPtz0

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#125

Post by pfdietz »

mattashii wrote: post #103
pfdietz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen is needed for the Haber-Bosch process for making ammonia. For steel making, hydrogen would be used for reduction of iron ores to iron metal (currently, most of that is done with coke). There's also a large market for using hydrogen to upgrade petroleum (hydrodesulfurization), but that market continuing to exist presumes some way of dealing with the CO2. Direct air capture, perhaps. There could also be market…

> hydrogen would be used for reduction of iron ores to iron metal Wouldn't electric reduction cells like those used in aluminium production work as well? Why would you need an input of hydrogen?

Hydrogen production via electrolysis has the property that it can be turned on and off nearly instantly. Aluminum electrolysis in molten cryolite must be kept running to maintain the temperature gradient between the molten electrolyte and the walls (if not maintained, either the walls overheat or the electrolyte freezes, ruining the cell.) The temperature for iron electrolysis in molten materials would be even higher.

One can imagine electrolyzing iron in aqueous solutions, but I understand this actually needs more energy than producing hydrogen and using that to reduce iron oxide. There is some electrolytic iron produced today, for applications that require very high purity (as high as 99.999%).

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#126

Post by bamboozled »

valine wrote: post #6

The problem with hydrogen is the lack of infrastructure. EVs have suffered from the same problem too but are arguably over the hump. Starting from zero again with range anxiety and no fueling stations sounds exhausting.

I really don't think that's true, we're not over the hump at all, maybe in California, but there is no way to charge an EV anywhere near me presently.
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