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As last module docks, China completes its space station

nytimes.com

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Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#201

Post by ClumsyPilot »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #128
ch4s3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this a logical fallacy? Rocket scientists and engineers are going to best suited to getting stuff into orbit, they aren't simply going to be able to go a solve a "more important problem". Other people are already working on those things and are likely specialists.

It's true in a way but just pushes things back a level of causality: if we train more people as aerospace engineers, then we will have fewer trained people in other specialties. We have a finite supply of enthusiastic, smart young people to drive change. The best answer of course is "do both" and make sure more of our young people are happy, enthusiastic, and able to access necessary training and education. There are…

> We have a finite supply of enthusiastic, smart young people to drive change

And currently most of them go into trading, which is a zero-sum game, or into building another social network that causes depression.

Look at top-ten list of high paying jobs, and ask youself how much crucial work for society they do

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#202

Post by nimbius »

tunesmith wrote: post #167
russli1993 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the features I know from the Chinese space station - Solar panels smaller in area than ISS but produces similar amount of power, indicating much more efficient solar panels - Ion thrusters to keep space in orbit - Automated docking of cargo and crew capsule. Semi-automated docking of large station components like the 23ton labs - A robotic arm similar to ISS that walk along the joint points on the station. It…

"sanction" is one of the dumbest words on earth. "to give official approval" vs "impose a penalty".

So for those wondering why no US collaboration, you can blame republican octogenarian Frank Wolf for introducting the Wolf amendment prohibiting any and all NASA collaboration with china that isnt expressly sanctioned by the rest of the geriatrics in congress. he even managed to fuck up the 2013 Kepler Science Conference which resulted in a mass boycott after two chinese scientists were banned.

We had every opportunity to collaborate with chinese scientists aboard the ISS before this crap. The man is a traitor to science.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#203

Post by iends »

dotnet00 wrote: post #172
shortstuffsushi wrote: post #88

Wait, in order to build this, they've launched half a dozen rockets up with no idea where the boosters would come back down and land? That seems up there amongst worst ideas I've heard for a while, "good luck everybody else." Edit: didn't realize this would be a controversial comment; per the article, the "norm" is to have a burn again after releasing their payload, to "control" / direct the return. The Chinese aren'…

Yes, they have been doing that. Yes, it's a dumb idea. Yes, the US had something similar happen in the past with Skylab coming down over Australia and killing a cow (we also learned that it's not a particularly good thing to do and are more careful these days). The problem is that the rocket in question has the large 'main' tank go all the way to orbit. Thus they probably can't also include enough propulsion to put i…

There was no incident involving Skylab and a cow.

Are you mixing it up with a Cuban owned cow and a different launch almost 20 years before Skylab?

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#204

Post by XorNot »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #128
ch4s3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this a logical fallacy? Rocket scientists and engineers are going to best suited to getting stuff into orbit, they aren't simply going to be able to go a solve a "more important problem". Other people are already working on those things and are likely specialists.

It's true in a way but just pushes things back a level of causality: if we train more people as aerospace engineers, then we will have fewer trained people in other specialties. We have a finite supply of enthusiastic, smart young people to drive change. The best answer of course is "do both" and make sure more of our young people are happy, enthusiastic, and able to access necessary training and education. There are…

You don't have a finite supply of people. Because people get to choose what they do. Even the dictatorships can't order people to become a good X if they don't have the interest.

It's the height of entitlement to think you're able to demand more of some profession come into existence. The worst regimes on earth can't manage it. The most you get to do is incentivize and make available the training and access and process to maybe get more of that. That's it.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#205

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

robocat wrote: post #124
jason-phillips wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the browsers on my iPhone will render this site, W3C compliant or not. In any event, I would never tell my users that it's their fault that my app didn't check the truthiness of the object's property. Seems particularly hostile to one's users and customers, free product or not.

FYI: renders on iPad with iPadOS 16.1 (iPad so no GPS). Either way, you are coming across to me as somewhat petulant - you could be right but politeness has its place too.

> (iPad so no GPS)

That's WiFi only iPads - the iPads with 3G/4G comms used to have GPS, at least the 2011 iPad2 did.

Probably still do, my current cheap Android tablet with 4G does.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#206

Post by danieltanfh95 »

zokier wrote: post #120

The frustrating aspect for me about CNSA is how little PR they do, at least towards west although I don't think even inside China they are giving that much extra info on the missions and their progress. Just compare the media spectacle around e.g. Perseverance rover wrt Tianwen-1. Sure NASA has more material to work with but still we are getting frequent mission updates and almost daily new pics to ogle; meanwhile th…

you could visit zhihu when it was the top topic for a few days

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#207

Post by yrgulation »

femto wrote: post #200
yrgulation wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve noticed that a lot of news about china’s progress is censored, probably so we dont see how fast they are progressing.

> probably so we dont see how fast they are progressing. The problem is we don't know either way. They could be super advanced, or it could be that they are covering up shortcomings. It feeds into the bigger question of: why do this stuff? If it is to advance human knowledge the results should be shared. It the results aren't being shared it's an exercise in nationalism with limited significance. A similar situation…

> If it is to advance human knowledge the results should be shared.

It’s easy for us to imagine that this day and age there are no competing civilisations and that every country will wholeheartedly share their progress. I suspect China, as Russia and perhaps India at some point, sees itself as such a competing civilisation. We assume that those times have ended but i think they haven't. In this context China does it for its own benefit. I somehow doubt they are not already either actively probing, or considering probing, mars, the moon and asteroids. Japan does it - we know this thanks to, albeit anaemic, coverage in the western media. If China has even a little bit of respect for its thousands of years of history it knows that the next meaningful territorial and resource expansion is space and it is only natural that it will try to outcompete us. Secret or not from us it makes no difference for china. Colossus may have been secret but the science that lead to its development wasn't and thats more important than the product itself. Just as the uk had fertile ground for developing it and later on for developing many computing advances, China is now creating fertile ground for space tech. We should keep an eye on it, and promote news about their progress, so the average joe will understand that unless we invest even more in space development then we are on track to becoming a secondary civilisation, ridden by debt and petty goals.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#208

Post by genocidicbunny »

femto wrote: post #200
yrgulation wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve noticed that a lot of news about china’s progress is censored, probably so we dont see how fast they are progressing.

> probably so we dont see how fast they are progressing. The problem is we don't know either way. They could be super advanced, or it could be that they are covering up shortcomings. It feeds into the bigger question of: why do this stuff? If it is to advance human knowledge the results should be shared. It the results aren't being shared it's an exercise in nationalism with limited significance. A similar situation…

> It feeds into the bigger question of: why do this stuff? If it is to advance human knowledge the results should be shared. It the results aren't being shared it's an exercise in nationalism with limited significance.

The point is to advance _their_ knowledge, not to share it with all of humanity. To establish a regular presence in space that they can build out from. If space is the next colonizable frontier, China would surely want to be getting in on the action as soon as they can. It's an exercise in nationalism in the sense that it's meant to advance their national interests, but whether it's of limited significance is for the future to know.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#209

Post by jacobr1 »

avmich wrote: post #188
m4jor wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, yes. That's accurate. Why would they waste time and their own money researching things when they can just steal it and then give that information to private and public Chinese industries? That is their entire MO. The Chinese are also responsible for $200-600 Billion worth of IP theft against the US every year. They will do whatever it takes to make China #1 and see nothing wrong with doing this. - https://w…

> Why would they waste time and their own money researching things when they can just steal it and then give that information to private and public Chinese industries? Because this way you'll always be behind.

Or you do both. Start from the point of known technologies and reverse engineering and improve from there. China bootstrapped their high-tech industry with not just spying, but also licensing technology, join-ventures, training students/employees abroad and then bringing them back as experienced researchers/engineers. No need to start from first-principles. Plus even when you do have tech-specs on something, that doesn't mean you know how to manufacture it, or it may need modification to address broader system tradeoffs.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#210

Post by jorgesborges »

jason-phillips wrote: post #64
jdbernard wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they'd be happy to give you a refund. :)

The point is not that one makes available one's site for free. The point is that the quality of the work is sloppy, price of said service notwithstanding. There are many other ways to approximate a client's geolocation so as to prevent displaying an embarrassing error where one did not first check whether the object's property was truthy or not. Justifying terrible UX by saying, "it's free," is a terrible strategy, t…

Here’s a blog post by the author of the app for more insight into the amount of work and details put into it.

https://james.darpinian.com/blog/how-see-a-satellite-tonight...

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