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As last module docks, China completes its space station

nytimes.com

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Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#191

Post by epolanski »

m4jor wrote: post #169
Jayab wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then maybe a little late to sanction their tech to keep them from being peer competitors.

Sanctions do not matter to China. They will just have their nation state backed hackers hack into aerospace and defense contractors and steal their R&D instead. Thats the Chinese way and MO. Anything to further the Chinese economy. They have hacked nearly every F100 they needed to and steal hundreds of billions in IP annually already. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_pr... - https://www.cnb…

I find it very naive to think other countries do not have state-backed technological spying.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#192

Post by resoluteteeth »

cdelsolar wrote: post #182
tunesmith wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"sanction" is one of the dumbest words on earth. "to give official approval" vs "impose a penalty".

Yep and I have no idea what the OP meant by this.

subject to sanctions or export controls, I think, so they can't use exported US products and have to develop their own

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#193

Post by epolanski »

bpodgursky wrote: post #138
Jayab wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then maybe a little late to sanction their tech to keep them from being peer competitors.

Eh, unclear. Nobody was trying to stop China from building space stations. The goal was to limit jet and ICBM tech.

China isn't 60s us or ussr, it's a country countless time richer and more technologically advanced, has all the means to produce all the ICBMs they want.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#196

Post by ElevenLathe »

ch4s3 wrote: post #156
ElevenLathe wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true in a way but just pushes things back a level of causality: if we train more people as aerospace engineers, then we will have fewer trained people in other specialties. We have a finite supply of enthusiastic, smart young people to drive change. The best answer of course is "do both" and make sure more of our young people are happy, enthusiastic, and able to access necessary training and education. There are…

> if we train People choose those paths on their own, not because some human industrial policy plucked them out of middle school and put them on that path.

Nonetheless, if they choose to be an aerospace engineer, they've chosen not to be, for example, a surgeon, or whatever else.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#197

Post by walrus01 »

zokier wrote: post #120

The frustrating aspect for me about CNSA is how little PR they do, at least towards west although I don't think even inside China they are giving that much extra info on the missions and their progress. Just compare the media spectacle around e.g. Perseverance rover wrt Tianwen-1. Sure NASA has more material to work with but still we are getting frequent mission updates and almost daily new pics to ogle; meanwhile th…

Presumably there is a great deal more domestic PR in Mandarin and Cantonese in the state run media like the Peoples' Daily and Xinhua.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#198

Post by ClumsyPilot »

m4jor wrote: post #169
Jayab wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then maybe a little late to sanction their tech to keep them from being peer competitors.

Sanctions do not matter to China. They will just have their nation state backed hackers hack into aerospace and defense contractors and steal their R&D instead. Thats the Chinese way and MO. Anything to further the Chinese economy. They have hacked nearly every F100 they needed to and steal hundreds of billions in IP annually already. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_pr... - https://www.cnb…

Ah, so the chaos and lack of documentation in my company is really protection against chinese spies! Clever!

On a more serious note, I find it quite unfair that Western conoany go into China to take advantage of loose labour laws and child labour, and then they complain when loose IP laws hit them. Like you knew what the deal was from the outset.

Lastly not every society believes in the concept of intellectual property, it is not even clearly defined - for instance EU does not issue software patents.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#199

Post by incompatible »

m4jor wrote: post #169
Jayab wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then maybe a little late to sanction their tech to keep them from being peer competitors.

Sanctions do not matter to China. They will just have their nation state backed hackers hack into aerospace and defense contractors and steal their R&D instead. Thats the Chinese way and MO. Anything to further the Chinese economy. They have hacked nearly every F100 they needed to and steal hundreds of billions in IP annually already. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_pr... - https://www.cnb…

I was surprised at how long this list was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_spy_cases_in_t...

It seems unlikely that any country could monopolise any particular weapons technology for long. I assume the US also has programs to extract any innovations from China or Russia.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#200

Post by femto »

yrgulation wrote: post #189
zokier wrote: post #120

The frustrating aspect for me about CNSA is how little PR they do, at least towards west although I don't think even inside China they are giving that much extra info on the missions and their progress. Just compare the media spectacle around e.g. Perseverance rover wrt Tianwen-1. Sure NASA has more material to work with but still we are getting frequent mission updates and almost daily new pics to ogle; meanwhile th…

I’ve noticed that a lot of news about china’s progress is censored, probably so we dont see how fast they are progressing.

> probably so we dont see how fast they are progressing.

The problem is we don't know either way. They could be super advanced, or it could be that they are covering up shortcomings.

It feeds into the bigger question of: why do this stuff? If it is to advance human knowledge the results should be shared. It the results aren't being shared it's an exercise in nationalism with limited significance.

A similar situation arose in the history of computing. Colossus might have been the first programmable electronic computer, but it is a historical curiosity since it was kept secret until the 1970s. Humanity already had microprocessors by the time it was made public. Despite being a "first" it made little contribution to progress and is arguably of little import. Any secret research program runs the same risk.

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