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NASA finds super-emitters of methane

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#11

Stupid question: How much is this actually contributing to climate change? Any climate scientists who make active predictions about how much we don't know?

Methane is a very strong greenhouse gas. But the upside is that it doesn't stay in the atmosphere for long. The half life of it is something like 9 years.

At which time it turns into CO2 which stays around longer, and water which I believe is a more potent greenhouse gas than either

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#12
post #6

How could a 2 mile long methane plume in New Mexico have been undetected for any significant amount of time? From what I understand basic environmental monitoring is done in 2022 around all major industrial facilities in the U.S.

what interesting is there is nothing there. The only something are gas wells which the whole area is dotted with, so my only guess is leaky gas wells? https://www.google.com/maps/@32.3761968,-104.0819087,4787m/d...

Looks like Marathon Oil is the company

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#14
> The instrument can look for methane in the same way. “It turns out that methane also has a spectral signature in the same wavelength range, and that’s what has allowed us to be sensitive to methane,” EMIT principal investigator Robert Green said at a press conference, according to Space.com’s Mike Wall.

Lol "it turns out". Did they troll Congress and sell them a mineral detector? Of course they knew methane had a spectral signature.

EDIT: No idea why people downvoting, I think it's hilarious and good we can detect it.

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#15
Looking forward to AR apps that map pollutant emissions from such data and project it as you travel about, making the invisible conscious. There will be more public pressure for reform if the public can see the see the point-source IRL.

If popularized that data could move real estate prices, with political fallout.

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#16

How could a 2 mile long methane plume in New Mexico have been undetected for any significant amount of time? From what I understand basic environmental monitoring is done in 2022 around all major industrial facilities in the U.S.

Sadly, the environmental monitoring is woefully inadequate, even next to the western hemisphere's largest industrial complex (Freeport, TX ... though its a bit better of an example to use or include Deer Park / Houston Ship Channel as well because it's part of America's 3rd/4th largest city). Below the dashed line is a copy/paste of a comment I made two months ago on a post of ProPublica's dispersion model and public health impact modeling of self-reported emission events: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32549653

I am very much looking forward to more and more satellites like this one and ESA's SENTINEL-5P and SCIAMACHY. But AFAIK they'll never be able to tell the difference between, say, ethyl acrylate vs. butyl acrylate (both incredibly toxic) or ethyl mercaptan vs. methyl mercaptan (both noxious/cause headaches at unbelievably low concentrations; ethyl mercaptan has an odor threshold of 0.35 parts per trillion).

So if one plant makes one chemical, and another plant next door makes a similar chemical, these satellites might let the public know that one of the plants is leaking, but both still would have deniability - "it's the other guy across the street". And you'd still not actually know which chemical you've been exposed to.

For that, you'd need monitoring stations with comprehensive sensor combinations at the property boundaries of each chemical plant.

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I live in the western hemisphere's largest integrated industrial complex (Freeport, TX integrated with the eastern edge of Houston as well). Note that Freeport, TX has ZERO state or federal EPA VOC analyzers which can actually detect which chemical is leaking. They can only detect "this amount of something with {sulfur, N-O bonds, aromatic carbon rings} -- no clue what precisely though!". This is the same capability of the most advanced atmospheric pollution satellites. Completely fucking useless for an area which manufactures something like 15-20% of all USA domestic chemicals. The technology to measure individual chemicals exists, but the government isn't paying for it or installing it.

The ENTIRE east side of Houston metropolitan area is dedicated to or "next door" to massive chemical manufacturing. This is an industrial area nearly equal to the area encompassing all of Seattle/Bellevue/Redmond/Renton/Tukwila. This massive area has only 3 air quality monitors which test for these kinds of chemicals[0]. During huge major events like the ITC fire[2], they often show no increased pollution at all. I lived next to leaks every day and because I worked in the plants I knew the smells - one day acrylates, next day thiols, next day hydrocarbons, etc. But the 3 monitoring sites over 10 miles from me showed nothing at all.

Here is the one "correct" monitoring station near the chemical plants of Houston: [0]... but several of its analyzers are often offline/broken/pending maintenance. Here's a map of all the other ones: [1] Generally single/dual color dots mark "not-useful" monitoring sites which might measure only PM2.5 or Ozone, for example. The 4+ color dots are generally useful, they measure specific (large) families of chemicals so you can see very roughly what is leaking, even if it doesn't have "soot" in it.

The data used by ProPublica is actually far worse than the woefully inadequate data collected by TCEQ/EPA air monitoring stations -- because what ProPublica used was "self-reported" data from the chemical plants. But I know from working in them and living next to them that many leaks are never reported and many leaks are never even known internally! Our government's data collection is a travesty. ProPublica couldn't use the real air quality measurements because having 2-3 points across 1000 mi^2 is completely useless for the wind models they wanted to apply to the problem.

We don't actually have any data. The government is failing us. They need to spend about $1 million per air monitoring station and build them along the perimeters of each plant so that leaks can be assigned to the offending companies, and they need to be built near housing so that we know how families are being affected. ITC fire which blanketed houston's sky in smoke: [2]

0: https://tceq.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id...

1: https://tceq.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id...

2: https://abc13.com/deer-park-fire-2019-itc-houston-air-qualit...

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#17
post #7

Stupid question: How much is this actually contributing to climate change? Any climate scientists who make active predictions about how much we don't know?

> Methane is more than 25 times as potent as carbon dioxide at trapping heat in the atmosphere It's a pretty potent greenhouse gas. https://www.epa.gov/gmi/importance-methane

Methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas compared to CO2, but also stays in the atmosphere much less long (on the order of a few decades).

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methane is a very strong greenhouse gas. But the upside is that it doesn't stay in the atmosphere for long. The half life of it is something like 9 years.

At which time it turns into CO2 which stays around longer, and water which I believe is a more potent greenhouse gas than either

Water falls to the earth as rain

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#20
post #14

> The instrument can look for methane in the same way. “It turns out that methane also has a spectral signature in the same wavelength range, and that’s what has allowed us to be sensitive to methane,” EMIT principal investigator Robert Green said at a press conference, according to Space.com’s Mike Wall. Lol "it turns out". Did they troll Congress and sell them a mineral detector? Of course they knew methane had a s…

I read that as "we built the detector to be sensitive to the wavelengths of the minerals we wanted to monitor, and methane's spectra are in that range, so it works well for picking it up".
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