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Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

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Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#111

Post by dec0dedab0de »

Test0129 wrote: post #71
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason some shells like fish (and now nushell) are non-POSIX? Some things are different than other things. It's the same reason that not all desserts are pie, and not all automobiles are trucks.

I guess I was more curious about the cost/benefit. Given a well defined standard like POSIX, and the difficulty of swapping in a new shell into Windows, I wasn't seeing why you'd buck the well established trend.

Again, it's just because sometimes things are different. That's why I used pies and trucks as an analogy. Both pies and trucks are well established, serve their needs well, have plenty of variety, and room for improvement and innovation. That does not mean all work on desserts and automobiles should contain crusts and beds. Those are design decisions that serve some purposes very well, but not everything.

Most importantly: programming, like baking and automobile design, is an artistic craft, not just a solution to real world problems. We as a society already have well established solutions to tasty treats, transportation, and interacting with a computer. Trying something new will not harm anything, but there is a chance it may revolutionize everything. If it meets the authors requirements, while satisfying their creative urge, then the cost is well worth the benefit. Even if they are the only ones to ever use it.

That said, if you are asking why is it worth it for you or anyone else to invest their time into learning how to use it, that is a very different question, and I have no idea. I will not be using this any time soon, but I wish them luck, and I am glad that they are trying something new.

Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#112

Post by pletnes »

chem83 wrote: post #52
pletnes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSL is great but it’s basically a convenient VM. It’s no longer windows, as far as I’m concerned.

It’s a lightweight Hyper-V VM, just like Windows itself when you turn Hyper-V support on (boots hypervisor first, then the Windows VM in the root or parent partition)[0]. But if that’s an issue, WSL1 is still an option.[1] It’s a thin translation layer between Linux kernel calls and NT kernel calls, which was the original concept of subsystem from the early NT days which allowed OS/2 apps to run on top of ntdll.dll.…

It’s not an issue, in fact as a Linux fan it’s magnificent! However it is not windows so if you want to use it for windows stuff / software development there’s going to be some edge cases, performance penalties and hiccups. So long as you stay inside the WSL2 VM and filesystem it’s fantastic.

Also WSL1 was a subsystem in the NT kernel but WSL2 is not like this - it runs a separate Linux kernel, with some convenient integrations. WSL1 never did support all the features - I recall I had to use windows .exe executables for some software packages that do have apt-installable packages.

Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#114

Post by pletnes »

mustache_kimono wrote: post #83
stoplying1 wrote: post #54

I just ported a bunch of scripts to nushell. I hit some bugs, a couple of which are a bit sharp, but wow, the list of quirks I have to remember for nutshell are so much fewer than for bash. Constantly impressed at the errors it catches at parse time, kinda crazy sometimes. Oh my god I could cry, strings are sane to work with. I may never write a bash script again (it's okay, I use Nix so I get nushell everywhere I'm…

> I may never write a bash script again I wrote 2x 200 line-ish shell scripts recently, and it was simply terrible, and although I'm increasingly convinced we need a shell like abstraction, I can't believe `bash` is the best we can do. Really hope I find one of these alt shells that suits me. Not a fan of Python but xonsh looks really cool too.

Xonsh is very posix/bash-like but you can call python functions in an integrated way. Even if you don’t love python it’s a more sane language than bash. I really like it but I’ve been using zsh for too long.

Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#115

Post by pletnes »

jdmichal wrote: post #93
sixothree wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Windows itself, as in your desktop, runs virtualized under many circumstances; and nobody seems to complain about Hyper-V then. And to be clear, WSL2 is very much integrated into windows via the filesystem and networking. I like to think of the networking more akin to docker than anything else.

It can also cross-run programs and UIs. I can type in `code .` in my Ubuntu image, and VSCode will open in Windows at that directory. I can also run UI programs in Ubuntu and their windows pop up in the Windows desktop environment.

While the «code .» integration is great, it’s running as client-server. You can do similar development over ssh to another vm or physical machine, too.

Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#116

Post by dec0dedab0de »

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #106
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do they alias all this stuff. Remove Item is _not_ rm. It's so stupid. Like when they aliased wget and curl to some nonsense web request command and everybody complained that it didn't work. I'll never use PowerShell. Just way too many bad decisions all over the place.

>why do they alias all this stuff To make interactive usage easier? PowerShell essentially replaces the text-oriented environment provided by coreutils with an integrated object-oriented one.

In hindsight it probably would have been better if they just had a help message with something like "Oh you must be a *nix user, thanks for trying Powershell! You can do something similar with command xyz. Read that command's documentation -here- , and read a guide on the differences between posix and powershell -here-"

Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#117

Post by cyber_kinetist »

chasil wrote: post #89
cyber_kinetist wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't want to start up a separate Linux VM just to open up a shell. (I already crossed out Cygwin / MSYS on the list because of performance issues...)

Busybox for Windows has a very accessible shell.

Yeah, I've used that before. But it was a bit too minimal for my tastes.

Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#118

Post by csdvrx »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #90
stoplying1 wrote: post #54

I just ported a bunch of scripts to nushell. I hit some bugs, a couple of which are a bit sharp, but wow, the list of quirks I have to remember for nutshell are so much fewer than for bash. Constantly impressed at the errors it catches at parse time, kinda crazy sometimes. Oh my god I could cry, strings are sane to work with. I may never write a bash script again (it's okay, I use Nix so I get nushell everywhere I'm…

Honestly I’ve enjoyed working with PowerShell for scripts to work for all developers on my team regardless of what OS they are using.

It feels very different from unix shell. I like them both!

I think Powershell more advanced ecosystem with a default output more like the sqlite tables of nushell would be wonderful: the objects handled by PS would be more naturally suitable to this, and would compose more easily.

Re: Nushell: Introduction to a new kind of shell

#120

Post by kibwen »

gg-klotho wrote: post #109

I tried nushell for a few days, but sh syntax is just too ingrained... It slowed me down a bunch and couldn't get over the initial learning curve. Ended up going back to zsh. Also, losing a bunch of completions for tools I used was a bummer. I wish nushell could parse bash/zsh completion scripts or something to help ease the transition. Maybe I'll revisit it at some point in the future.

It took me about a decade after fish came out for me to finally switch from bash. Nu looks like an improvement over fish, but I expect it will also take me about a decade to bite the bullet and use it. :P
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