I don't really understand why this is so significant or perhaps I don't understand the experiment. You are fed some training set and a certain brain activity pattern is identified as the "target." Then you show a whole bunch of other stimuli and try to teach the brain to display the target activity pattern for a different stimulus by having this proxy indicator that tells you how close you are (green disk). Don't we…
Why do we need computers? We already have the abacus.
Scientists demonstrate Matrix-like learning with no conscious effort
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Re: Scientists demonstrate Matrix-like learning with no conscious effort
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#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do we need computers? We already have the abacus.
Well, my abacus doesn't seem to support Flash.
I know HN doesn't want to devolve into a morass of stupid one-dimensional humor, but I sometimes find a place that bans humor pretty much entirely, equally miserable.
Re: Scientists demonstrate Matrix-like learning with no conscious effort
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#16I can't wait until advertisers and SuperPACs get a hold of this.
Re: Scientists demonstrate Matrix-like learning with no conscious effort
#17Re: Scientists demonstrate Matrix-like learning with no conscious effort
#18Interesting, but could be bad:
1 - larger divide between those who can afford a service like this and those who can't
2 - governments and other entities can use it to brainwash people to create highly ideological and loyal agents/staff.
Re: Scientists demonstrate Matrix-like learning with no conscious effort
#19Might as well take the chance to go slightly off-topic: anyone here a skill acquisition nerd? What methods do you utilize to gain more "I know Kung Fu" moments in life? :)
Re: Scientists demonstrate Matrix-like learning with no conscious effort
#20This submission's title is misleading, and the original work could be better summarized as "improving at one task while doing another". The authors first determined a pattern of brain activation (indexed by blood flow) associated with the presentation of a target (visual) stimulus for a given subject. Then, they gave subjects real-time feedback about their brain activation while they performed a superficially differe…
It's certainly a big leap beyond what's actually been demonstrated here. But it is a very interesting first step along that path, and if something like Matrix-style learning was ever going to be possible, I'd imagine this would be the most fruitful approach to follow.
Just to be clear: what's going on here is essentially that they've set up an apparatus to display an error function that measures the difference between the target and actual brain states in a person, and asked the person to minimize that error. The idea would be that by trying to match brain states you could shortcut the learning process that lead to that brain state, and instead skip directly to the result. Pretty standard optimization problem, except that it involves the brain.
The difficulties come in two parts:
1) Is it possible to efficiently "navigate" your own brain state based on feedback towards a target based on an error function, and do so well enough to jump out of crappy local maxima? More generally, is it possible to reliably navigate to a target brain state quickly enough so that it's more efficient than actually going through the learning process that the target state was arrived at from?
2) Can we even measure "brain state" accurately enough so that successful completion of 1) would be useful at all?
1) is a biological question, 2) is technical. This particular research doesn't offer much on either front, sadly, because the task they picked was so simple that it would clearly have been better achieved by direct learning (they spent several days training people on the "error function", and I can't imagine it took that long to recognize an orientation of an image for the training group...).
I'd be very skeptical about how useful low resolution views of brain activity will be when it comes to higher level understanding rather than simple visual recognition tasks. And I'd also be skeptical about whether we'd still be able to effectively navigate our brains through the fitness landscapes if we ever did achieve resolution good enough to help with more difficult tasks.
But I don't think it's a wash. It's pretty likely that even low-res views of brain activity for certain tasks can be helpful - if you could match your brain activity even at a rough scale to the way Richard Feynman's looked when he was thinking about physics, it would probably put you in a better state of mind to do physics than you might have been otherwise, and that could still be useful, even if it couldn't directly transfer his knowledge about QED to your brain.
If we ever get to a point where scanners are much better, I imagine there will be quite the industry in picking out which low-res reductions of high-res brain activity are the best to use as training targets...