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Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

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Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#21
Worst case, you’ll end up either dying(Cirrhosis, pancreatitis, cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc.), or with wet brain.

I’m in my mid 30s, and have seen first hand people my age go down with those - and even more so for the older generation. My father passed at age 49, and every single one of his drinking buddies have also passed away.

Unless you’re “lucky” and keel over from a massive heart-attack or stroke, it is a miserable way to go.

My step-father, a vet with PTSD, has been sober for 2 years now. He was admitted with all the usual symptoms of impending liver failure - but luckily managed to stay sober. He’d drink maybe 6-10 tall boys a day, and had done so for 10 years straight.

The mental difference to us, the people that interact with him daily, is very apparent. He seems much quicker and sharper, is back to being articulate in his speech, doesn’t struggle with finding words, and the list goes on.

I’d put all my energy and focus on fixing the drinking problem. You may be physically ok now, but what about 5-10-15 years from now?

As I wrote earlier, I grew up with alcoholics - from all walks of life, all with their different drinking habits and preference - they rarely get old.

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#22
I am Australian, and for no one real reason, don't drink that much at all any more, mostly for convenience of being able to drive for dropping off and picking up children etc.

But, as a country, drinking is historically Australia's national past time, and we used to eclipse all others including the Germans, but trailing off a bit these days, I think.

But, based on personal experience and empirical observations, a six pack a night, of American beer, most people in Australia would class that as necessary rehydration, maybe undertaken before breakfast.

If it was, say, two bottles of wine a night, I'd be saying that I have seen that sort of level to potentially have a detrimental effect, but in many ways other than cognitive before that would creep in.

You also have to take into account that your body will become to a certain extent accustomed to alcholo use and you tend to build up tolerance via production of more enzymes to break alcohol down, shaping of your drinking habits (eg guzzling vs drinking) type of alcohol you choose and so on.

I do not advocate use of alcohol in an extensive or pervasive way, and statistically alcohol is one of the worst drugs there is, partly because of availability. But I feel there are worse things that you can be doing to yourself, including excessively stressing out about things, like work, or drinking too much...

There are many things you can do to start to minimise impacts.

For instance if you start to not really know how many drinks you have had, put the bottle top or ring pull in your top pocket for each drink, measuring something is the first step to controlling something.

Also, it is not just the amount you drink, it is the rate you drink and the condition of your stomach when you drink that makes a big difference.

Rule of thumb is for an adult male it is 0.01 BAC ( 0.01g of alcohol in every 100ml of blood. ) out, or processed every hour by the body. (YMMSV)

And one standard drink is 0.01 BAC in. One can American standard beer is about 1 standard drink, strong beer maybe up to 2.

If you space out your beers, say by having a glass of water between each one, the peak alcohol BAC can be substantially reduced, it's basic queueing theory. Plus the impact of any dehydration will be greatly diminished and the next morning should be somewhat more pleasant.

And make sure to have some food first, the rate of absorption on an empty stomach can be substantially greater than one that has food to dilute the alcohol in the stomach.

But, regardless of all this, if you start having episodes where you can’t remember, or maybe act inappropriately, causing regrets, it is wise to seek some help if you cannot diminish these effects on your own.

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#23
post #5

Whatever you do about the boozie, have medical supervision and ALWAYS be honest with your Doctor. Lie to your boss, partner, friends, and coworkers if you must but NEVER EVER lie to your doctor. Individuals vary considerably and there's no telling what's permanent and isn't for you but I think you'll be surprised how much difference moderation and good sleep will help. Also remember that angst/stress about mental fog…

I disagree. If your data is going into a database to live forever, you should be careful what you say.

This, anything you tell your doctor you should assume is available to the police.

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#24
I have had a somewhat similar experience to you.

I was living and working in London (big drinking culture) for about 10-12 years. Mostly just a few beers each night with work friends. After a while I had to have a few beers at night even when not out with work.

This slowly progressed up to a 4 pack, then a 4 pack and a glass of wine, then a 4 pack and half a bottle of wine etc etc, then beers at lunch, and before I knew it I couldn't go without drink for very long.

It was only when I started finding it harder to focus and forgetting really simple and recent stuff that I started to worry. I'd lost so much to drinking (driving license, girlfriend, friends, money, jobs) but it was when it started to affect my basic cognition that I took action. It was very scary, my brain is what pays my bills.

After nearly 2 years completely sober I'd say I'm about 90% back mentally, but I've realised so many more benefits. Brilliant relationships, loads more money, I laugh more, I eat better, sleep better......it's fucking BRILLIANT!!!

Please find the help you need sooner rather than later. You can turn things around and it's totally worth it.

I'm 41 and sober this year!

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#25

I am Australian, and for no one real reason, don't drink that much at all any more, mostly for convenience of being able to drive for dropping off and picking up children etc. But, as a country, drinking is historically Australia's national past time, and we used to eclipse all others including the Germans, but trailing off a bit these days, I think. But, based on personal experience and empirical observations, a six…

Or just accept that drinking is overall harmful to your health, and quitting entirely, rather than keeping it in check, is the solution. It's the solution I came across after nearly a decade of on/off relationship with alcohol.

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#26
> I somehow feel sick and constantly tired.

Because you have been drinking so long, your brain's neurochemical levels (specifically dopamine) have adjusted around the alcohol's effects, and now that you've removed it, these chemicals are out of balance (this is called downregulation/upregulation).

This is a very common effect of long-term drug/alcohol use (really any medication too), all you can do is stop the alcohol use and wait for it to improve - it 100% will, but it will take time. A supplement called N-Acetyl-Cystene (NAC) can help, though of course it is not a magic bullet

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#27
I found that work and relationships interfered with my professional drinking career. I didn't really have to worry as alcohol removed both of these impediments. It took many months before I was given insight. A moment of clarity. I am a CPA and various PG degrees. I could not execute cursive writing or read more than two sentences at the end of my drinking career. My first job in sobriety was painting white lines on roads, marking out carparks and asphalting (hard). I found all those tasks challenged me to my then limits. Many years later I reflect that all, yes all, of my life's difficulties in those dark days were rooted in my addiction to alcohol. I stopped drinking, ten minutes, one hour, one day at a time. All my birth family have died of alcohol related causes, asphyxiation on own vomit, alcoholic cardio myopathy, untreated perforated ulcer with sepsis. I don't have to prove them right.

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#28
( Edit: Sorry, not meant to threadjack, I just thought it answered a question that might come next along the line for the poster or others. The answer to the poster's question is "It's withdrawal" Peace and love to you all )

I'd love to see a long-form study of addicts attracted to software development.

I'm an alcoholic and love nothing more than solving a really difficult software (or other problem). I think the two are related but likely not causally one way or the other. Probably just associated. But what would a statistical study do other than estimate your probable likelihood of whatever cause?

Get to know yourself. Any way you can. Watch out for the side-effects of any suggested medications. KEEP A DIARY. And especially don't fret if you fail at getting better. A little better is awesome any time you manage it. Perfect is not available.

All the very best, and if genes are on your side, you might be having a gin for the queen when you are 86, even if you don't succeed at being the best recovering hero everyone around you thinks they need you to be.

Mostly, get to know yourself. Therapy is scary but crazy good if have a go at it. 1% efforts compound. And you are not alone. Unfortunately, you'll likely be surrounded by the 95% who don't know addiction intimately, but look for those who do.

Cheers again. Peace and love to you and those you touch.

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#29
The thing to realize first is that alcohol is more addictive than many other substances. And it can affect anyone. There is a pretty sinister in my opinion psychological trick that the alcohol industry has pulled. They have managed to convince society that anyone who has problems after routinely consuming alcohol has a severe genetic defect.

What other drug is looked at this way? None, because they don't have the marketing budget of the alcohol companies.

I feel like that actually makes people somehow subconsciously want to prove that they can "handle" alcohol. Like avoiding it is admitting there is something wrong with them.

But addiction is real of course. And regardless of your job it can destroy your life.

I think to survive you must seek medical treatment if possible and concentrate on a plan to stop and avoid relapse. I think this probably should involve some type of medication. But long term you need one or two other habits to reach for. I think a really key thing for most people is exercise or sport. For me, I really enjoy table tennis in VR.

What I have seen from closely observing someone with alcoholism is that they don't have a real plan and alternative activities or medication or anything. I think the hardest part is that the addiction will make them avoid those types of things that could get them past the hump.

But aside from that, just realize that all of the commercials of drinking in bars and standing around etc. is marketing material and not something you need to model your life around. There is again perhaps a psychological trick for marketing is that you need to have a certain number of friends to drink with each weekend and that drinking will help you accomplish that. It's nonsense. And just because it's popular doesn't mean it's not the worst way to waste your time.

Check out Demeo in VR. Very easy way to jump into an interesting game with people.

Re: Ask HN: Alcoholism and Career in Software

#30
I’ve been where you are. It’s a worrisome spot.

Cutting back is absolutely the right thing to do. You won’t regret it. Your mind will bounce back - the longer you’re sober, the better you’ll feel.

I’ve been mostly sober for 6 years, and 100% for 3. Things got rapidly better after 6 months of being mostly clean, and then improved again after going 100%.

I started to love my work again. Home life was happy again. Depression and guilt didn’t stalk me anymore. And my brain was working better than ever.

Don’t give up. The beginning is the hardest part. It’s worth it!

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