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Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

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231–240 of 369 posts

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#231
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think he wasn’t beyond ‘sins of the father’?

When did I say he was a sinner? It's just really odd to characterize the a member of arguably the most powerful political dynasty in US history to be "challenging the status quo".

You are admitting to your disbelief that a person born with his background can do such a thing, and that’s kind of silly unless you say more.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like remove the special status of the City of London For sure, because it would sink the country, these days the UK is more dependent on the city than the city is on the UK

Dependent like a cancerous organ that is slowly killing its host, while removing might kill it immediately sure.

So what is the proper course of action for a situation where treatment leads to instantaneous failure and status quo does not?

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#233
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so laughable a statement I don't know where to begin. Maybe the private sector cares about it less (questionable in itself given how the stock market obsesses over recession signals) but governments absolutely use GDP for policy decisions.

can you name one, please?

Deficit spending, as other posters have pointed out is perhaps one of the biggest policy decision all governments take every year. Its always presented as a percentage of GDP to make it palatable.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#234
post #80

It's hard to overstate how terrible this idea is. GDP is a concrete measure that is difficult to fake. Once you start arguing about the economic value of volunteering, divorce, income inequality, and crime -- you've opened the door to never being able to trust GDP again. Should we create new metrics to track progress? Sure. Should we stop tracking GDP? No way.

It is not difficult to fake (e.g. China for the last 20 years). But I agree with you, we should add new metrics (and targets) but keep a GDP as one of them, also for the other indicators to mature (how they are measure, methodologies, transparency, etc...). Maybe one day GDP would be able to be left behind...

> It is not difficult to fake (e.g. China for the last 20 years).

Being valid in China is a very high bar, there is very little that a totalitarian government can't fake if it tries hard enough.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually we can get better metrics than GDP by measuring amount of light on satellite night images. It fits GDP more or less for western democracies, but it it better measure for other countries.

Night light is easy to fake with upward-facing illuminators.

It's kinda hard to hide that you are faking it on a national scale. Way easier with GDP.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#236
post #214

The silliness of GDP is one of the worst-kept secrets in politics and economics. It's like measuring the quality of a car by how fast it's going.

That’s a terrible analogy. GDP is like measuring how useful the car is.

Measuring how useful the car is would be perfect. GDP is like measuring how useful the car is by its market value.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#237
post #211

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising…

This is a BS political speech and it is very politically motivated. When you can't fix the economy (get GDP up), just claim the GDP doesn't matter. My country's president just claimed we should focus on National Happiness Product. Of course, when all your economical policies fail, economy is just numbers. And no, having an accident doesn't increase GDP. If the passengers dies, that will remove their GDP from society.…

There are cases where GDP can be gamed. For example, constructing a building generated GDP, so does tearing it down. In fact, building it and tearing down even if the building is never used are both GDP positive operations. If it can be measured, Goodhart’s law reigns supreme.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#238
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entertainment is positive value ("I want to watch/play/whatever this because I enjoy it"), healthcare is compensation for negative value ("I got injured and want to feel a little less shit"). Nobody goes to the doctor just because they felt like doing it that day. Counting the positive contribution of healthcare without counting the negative contributions of the injuries that lead people to seek healthcare is going t…

First do you really think people will get more injured to game GDP? Anyway the metric is capacity to fulfill peoples wants. If the population has injuries then it will be less productive and therefore have a lower GDP. See the broken window fallacy.

> First do you really think people will get more injured to game GDP?

I think politicians will be incentivized to adopt systems that underfund preventative care in favour of more expensive emergency care, and this has already happened.

> Anyway the metric is capacity to fulfill peoples wants. If the population has injuries then it will be less productive and therefore have a lower GDP.

Only to the extent that those injuries affect economic productivity. Someone at the bottom will "earn" more in one medical bankruptcy than in an entire lifetime of minimum-wage work.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#240

I've thought the Gini coefficient was better than GDP ever since I learned of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

The Gini coefficient is a pure measure of inequality, you can "improve" it while making literally everyone worse off (e.g. destroy all things of value in your country, now everyone has nothing and you have perfect equality).
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