Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

nintendolife.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 441 posts

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#131

Post by BooneJS »

daguava wrote: post #81

This is one of those events that I'm of several minds about: 1) This is what keeps people outside the scene interested and taking note - NASCAR absolutely should publicize and play up this moment, it brings a lot of folks to the sport. It was incredibly awesome. 2) A lot of times something like this is how you form some new regulations - it's truly one of those "You know, this was excellent but we can't do it again"…

You could penalize it but if he had to do it on the next turn his sidewalls would have blown out. It’s definitely something to add to the end of race all-chips-in bag of tricks.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#132

Post by TeMPOraL »

doublepg23 wrote: post #122
lostlogin wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It’s almost inverted. The expectation is often for gamers to be as exploitative as possible. There is a lot of hilarity to be had by all with a play that gets a win in ann unexpected way, and it has quite a culture around it. It can go too far to be sure, but in good measure it’s often what is best about multiplayer games.

Put a more negative way, but perhaps more funny: "Given the opportunity gamers will optimize fun out of a game."

That's only in multiplayer games, which are basically destined to become not fun at all. It's the competition that sucks out the fun. Players optimize for winning, cheaters optimize further more, devs optimize for getting rid of cheaters and for "maximizing engagement" of the rest.

In single-player games, given the opportunity, gamers will optimize for all kinds of cheese and hilarity never expected by the designers. Doubly so with the modern Internet, where sharing videos of your silly play confers social status in relevant on-line groups.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#133

Post by routerl »

kerakaali wrote: post #94
TulliusCicero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

I love this comment and want to add another perspective. The existence of video games brings people together on a level playing field where they are free to explore their ideas and refine strategies over a length of time far longer than anyone can actually play the game in reality. You see it to a more immediate effect in games such as Dota2, League, etc. Professional level players regularly play with amateurs and no…

> it wouldn't be hard to imagine that in the future strategies will be tested virtually before being employed in real.

Meet Max Verstappen[0], current reigning 2-time F1 world champion, who credits a lot of his success to how much time he spends playing racing simulators online. Seen here[1] doing something ridiculous, which works in the sim; he hasn't pulled this move on-track yet, but if he does it won't suprise me. Incidentally, most of the current generation of F1 drivers are also sim racers.

I think what these people are doing is creating goals for themselves in virtual spaces, to strive for in real space. The OP video couldn't have happened except in the exact situation that driver was in, his mind was habituated to trying to make that move, and he knew his car and track enough to make the correct call re: risk. The video game experience is only one part of that, but it's a crucial part. The rest came from real world racing experience.

[0] https://www.teamredline.com/work/max-verstappen/

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rC81KMPM9Q

Addendum to explain the video I've linked:

The streamer who is recording is close enough to the car ahead (Max Verstappen) that he gets pulled along by the slipstream effect (caused by the vacuum created behind the car ahead as it cuts through the air). This reduces the aerodynamic drag on the streamer's car, and allows him to accelerate more than the car ahead.

Normally (i.e. in meatspace racing), in this situation, the following car would wait as long as possible in the slipstream, until right before the next braking zone, then take a sharp turn out from behind the leading car, pass them (with the faster acceleration), and then try to brake later than the leading car before turning into the next corner, ensuring they'd go into the corner first, and thus come out of the corner first.

In this clip, Max anticipated all of the above, moved out from in front of the following car (breaking the slipstream himself), braked much earlier than a racing driver normally would (allowing the streamer's car to temporarily pass him), and used the time he lost to assess the streamer's racing line (read: vector) into the corner. Then he aimed his own car into the gap between that line and the corner of the track, and used the extra space to accelerate earlier than the streamer. By doing this, he negated every advantage the streamer had gained from the slipstream, and stayed ahead.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#134

Post by bee_rider »

yuliyp wrote: post #95
TulliusCicero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

That social expectation isn't really present in american football: teams will do lots of different things to manipulate the game clock toward the end (choose to run vs pass because the clock stops on incomplete passes or if the ball goes out of bounds, taking a knee, spiking the ball).

I think it is also common in basketball for a team to intentionally manage their fouls, right? And hockey had goons for quite a while (I think they've been trying to prevent that sort of thing lately). Perhaps we should change the meaning of the expression "sportsmanlike behavior."

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#135

Post by hattmall »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
jefftk wrote: post #56

Reminds me of another example of video-game inspired tactics: Just before he reached the end zone, with 17 seconds remaining, Stokley cut right at 90 degrees and ran across the field. Six seconds drained off the clock before, at last, he meandered across the goal line to score the winning touchdown. For certain football fans, the excitement of a last-minute comeback now commingled with the shock of the familiar: It's…

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

There's no social expectation in football. People don't generally do stuff like this because of the risk.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#136

Post by JohnBooty »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
jefftk wrote: post #56

Reminds me of another example of video-game inspired tactics: Just before he reached the end zone, with 17 seconds remaining, Stokley cut right at 90 degrees and ran across the field. Six seconds drained off the clock before, at last, he meandered across the goal line to score the winning touchdown. For certain football fans, the excitement of a last-minute comeback now commingled with the shock of the familiar: It's…

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

One reason you typically don't see really hacky/exploitative stuff in competitive sports is that... these sports are decades or even 100+ years old. Tens of thousands of games have been played by extremely talented and competitive individuals. Thousands of exploits have been tried and written into the rulebooks.

For example, the "Sean Avery" rule in hockey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Avery#The_Avery_Rule

That was a neat "exploit" and much respect to him for trying it, but it was outlawed literally the next day.

    The incentive to pull off this kind of move, 
    running the clock down a bit, that was already 
    present. But there's a certain social 
    expectation that you won't game the rules so 
    blatantly, so that's a disincentive.
While a fun thought, I cannot understate how incorrect this is.

In basketball, football, or basically any sport with a time limit there is absolutely zero stigma or shame with regards to running out the clock if it benefits your team.

In fact, that guy would have been raked over the coals if he didn't run out the clock.

I also assure you his coach was exhorting the team to win the game by running out the clock rather than scoring with time remaining on the clock which would have given the other team another chance to score and perhaps tie/win.

I'm sure that player definitely did pull that move off in a video game, but so has everybody else, because it's also super basic football strategy!

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#137

Post by jdminhbg »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
jefftk wrote: post #56

Reminds me of another example of video-game inspired tactics: Just before he reached the end zone, with 17 seconds remaining, Stokley cut right at 90 degrees and ran across the field. Six seconds drained off the clock before, at last, he meandered across the goal line to score the winning touchdown. For certain football fans, the excitement of a last-minute comeback now commingled with the shock of the familiar: It's…

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

I don’t think it’s the social expectations that are at play here. Instead, it’s that without video game football, the odds of a player ever being in this situation are minuscule — so minuscule that we’re currently commenting on an article written about one time that it happened twelve years ago — and so the correct strategy won’t be something that pops into your head when sprinting for the end zone. But if you play hundreds to thousands of iterated games of video game football where you control the ball on every play, you’re bound to run into the scenario and be detached enough to know what to do. Then that gets burned into your memory for the unlikely event it happens in real life.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#138

Post by couchand »

fimbulvetr wrote: post #74
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #2

Of all the forms of immortality, my favorite is participating in a competition in such a brilliant, incorrect way that a rule is permanently added just for you.

My favorite is Eddie the Eagle. Watch the movie or read the book. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_the_Eagle

Unbelievable!

> He received confirmation of his qualification for the games while working as a plasterer and temporarily residing in a Finnish mental hospital, due to lack of funds for alternative accommodation rather than as a patient.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#139

Post by jefftk »

JohnBooty wrote: post #136
TulliusCicero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

One reason you typically don't see really hacky/exploitative stuff in competitive sports is that... these sports are decades or even 100+ years old. Tens of thousands of games have been played by extremely talented and competitive individuals. Thousands of exploits have been tried and written into the rulebooks. For example, the "Sean Avery" rule in hockey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Avery#The_Avery_Rule That…

I'm not a football person, but my understanding from the article is that this wasn't something that people were doing until after it became popular in the video game?

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#140

Post by jboy55 »

ekianjo wrote: post #96
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #2

Of all the forms of immortality, my favorite is participating in a competition in such a brilliant, incorrect way that a rule is permanently added just for you.

> Of all the forms of immortality, my favorite is participating in a competition in such a brilliant, incorrect way that a rule is permanently added just for you. That's precisely why car races are boring these days. Everything is forbidden and over-regulated so there's no space for innovation anymore. Look at F1 and its bloat of regulations.

Besides the Can-Am series lenient regulations, what auto race series didn't have regulations?
Post reply on HN