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Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

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Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#81

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising…

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Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#82

I was surprised to learn that, in the US, health care is part of GDP. How messed up is that? Health care costs are not a productive output of an economy and to include them in GDP is ludicrous.

Would it surprise you then to learn that in every country in the world where medical personel get paid in currency, health care is part of GDP?

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#83
post #65

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising…

Any idea who wrote that speech for Robert Kennedy?

While RFK sometimes got help from Edwin Guthman and Peter Edelman, he also spoke extemporaneously sometimes, most famously when he had to announce the death of Martin Luther King to a crowd that hadn't yet heard the news:

https://kennedykingindy.org/full-rfk-speech

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#84

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising…

Quoted post unavailable.

I think it is a more general statement.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#85

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising…

Quoted post unavailable.

"Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success" -- that is the original article on Hacker News, under which we are having this conversation.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#86

It's hard to overstate how terrible this idea is. GDP is a concrete measure that is difficult to fake. Once you start arguing about the economic value of volunteering, divorce, income inequality, and crime -- you've opened the door to never being able to trust GDP again. Should we create new metrics to track progress? Sure. Should we stop tracking GDP? No way.

> Once you start arguing about the economic value of volunteering, divorce, income inequality, and crime

Who is saying we should do that? These items have value, that is not debatable. It might not be economic value, but that's not the point. The point is, these items are not being valued on a national scale, or at least extremely undervalued against GDP. If you have extreme wealth inequality, GDP is a pretty poor measure of basically anything.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#88

Robert Kennedy, on the campaign trail in 1968: "Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product - if we judge the United States of America by that - that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising…

Quoted post unavailable.

Well, imagine you're campaigning in a Democratic Party primary against an incumbent president from your own party who keeps bragging about how much GDP increased during their administration.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#89

It's hard to overstate how terrible this idea is. GDP is a concrete measure that is difficult to fake. Once you start arguing about the economic value of volunteering, divorce, income inequality, and crime -- you've opened the door to never being able to trust GDP again. Should we create new metrics to track progress? Sure. Should we stop tracking GDP? No way.

Actually we can get better metrics than GDP by measuring amount of light on satellite night images. It fits GDP more or less for western democracies, but it it better measure for other countries.

Night light is easy to fake with upward-facing illuminators.

Re: Gross domestic product is a misleading measure of national success (2014)

#90

It's hard to overstate how terrible this idea is. GDP is a concrete measure that is difficult to fake. Once you start arguing about the economic value of volunteering, divorce, income inequality, and crime -- you've opened the door to never being able to trust GDP again. Should we create new metrics to track progress? Sure. Should we stop tracking GDP? No way.

Seriously. If there was an obvious alternate metric, we'd already be using it.

Measuring well-being and happiness will never be straightforward and uncontroversial, despite what the authors of the article say.

You don't need to look much past the first few paragraphs of the article to see an obvious bias about income inequality. That reveals what attempts to find new metrics are really about: the authors want to use a set of metrics which have built-in left-wing assumptions about how society ought to look.

To think that such controversial metrics could serve as a replacement for GDP only reveals the authors' own naivete.

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