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Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

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Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#91

Post by wvenable »

rmrm wrote: post #80
Vivtek wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COPPA explicitly provides for a parental consent mechanism; Google simply doesn't choose to implement it. Everybody else implements it just fine.

Had never tried, so I just tried to create an underage account at Yahoo, they handle it thusly: Please get your mom or dad! You need your parent or guardian's permission to continue. Show them this screen. Parents, Please Sign-In. To complete your child's Yahoo! registration: Sign in with your own Yahoo! ID or sign up for a new account by clicking on the "Create New Account" button below. Confirm your child's informa…

When my child gets a little older he is going to be 13 for a very long time, online.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#92

Post by yew »

danilocampos wrote: post #86
yew wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not positioned with anything like the complexity you describe. I'm afraid that this is, at least to the best of my ability to judge, simply wrong. Gmail is affected by the rules of operation at Google, and by the law. They certainly could address the issue with more compassion, but only at the cost of further increasing the complexity of their system. Everything is a trade-off. > So it's not unreasonable, as O…

Oh, I meant marketing positioning. That is, Google doesn't tell users holy crap this is a byzantine system of laws and mousetraps and shit ! They just say Gmail is neat, and it's free, so use it. But, of course you're right, the creation of the sausage that is Gmail is a very complicated sequence, beset by both internal and external bureaucracy, to say nothing of the technical challenges in maintaining it.

Certainly. I would never accuse Google of consistency in presentation. Consistency is usually very far down the list of things-that-matter when it comes to business; I suspect they're much more motivated by convincing people to use their products.

If they weren't, we would all be complaining about some other company running one of the world's most popular email services instead.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#93

Post by madao »

csmt wrote: post #58
danilocampos wrote: post #18

B-b-but Google made this fancy video advertisement about how I can give my infant daughter a Gmail account and write to her as she grows up! Does it only work if she never uses it? You've gotta wait until you can hold a bat mitzvah to hand it off to her? This kind of chicanery is why I can only chuckle when Google announces new initiatives that require significant customer service, like selling telephones or providin…

This is absurd. Instead of not collecting data for children Google is blocking access to children. I am seriously looking for alternatives to Gmail. Any suggestions? I don't want my email account hooked up to a social network and advertising machinery.

Its very easy, simply jump onto Amazon's ec2 free instance and setup a webserver/webmail vm

it will cost you very little and you will not have to deal with crap like that, alternatively you can have a chat to your friendly domain hosting company, I am sure they will have something that will fit your needs.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#94

Post by DuncanIdaho »

quanticle wrote: post #7

To be honest, I think a large part of the blame goes to COPPA. I remember listening on those hearings, and those opposed to COPPA warned against this exact thing happening. They said that taking the decision away from parents would lead to disaster, and guess what, it has . Rather than blaming Google here, shouldn't we be writing our legislators to repeal COPPA? We should be telling them that this misguided law is st…

It really feels like stone age.

There are 13 year old kids out there who can write a web and mail server, yet could get into trouble for using them.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#96

Post by speleding »

csmt wrote: post #58
danilocampos wrote: post #18

B-b-but Google made this fancy video advertisement about how I can give my infant daughter a Gmail account and write to her as she grows up! Does it only work if she never uses it? You've gotta wait until you can hold a bat mitzvah to hand it off to her? This kind of chicanery is why I can only chuckle when Google announces new initiatives that require significant customer service, like selling telephones or providin…

This is absurd. Instead of not collecting data for children Google is blocking access to children. I am seriously looking for alternatives to Gmail. Any suggestions? I don't want my email account hooked up to a social network and advertising machinery.

This has been covered on HN before, the solution is pretty simple: just use a (free) Google Apps account instead and create accounts for your children. You will be responsible for complying with COPPA yourself instead of Google.

All you need is a domain name, but it's a good idea to have that anyways in case you ever want to leave. I use this solution with my kids and it works great because it also allows me to control access to certain services and reset passwords for them, etc.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#97

Post by biot »

yanw wrote: post #41
danilocampos wrote: post #18

B-b-but Google made this fancy video advertisement about how I can give my infant daughter a Gmail account and write to her as she grows up! Does it only work if she never uses it? You've gotta wait until you can hold a bat mitzvah to hand it off to her? This kind of chicanery is why I can only chuckle when Google announces new initiatives that require significant customer service, like selling telephones or providin…

That is not entirely fair, automation is the only way to admin millions of users and when nonsensical factors like COPPA get introduced to the system this happens. And I don't think that they did anything wrong here considering the consequences of not complying with the law.

Disney manages to provide good customer service for the millions of real-life humans that walk its theme parks annually. Google's problem is not that it can't be done, but that it's unprofitable to provide customer service when your business model consists of making a few pennies here and there.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#98

Post by pjscott »

portentint wrote: post #46

Not sure I'd blame Google as much as COPPA, and the politicians who think parents can't make this choice on their own. Of course, our kids can still find p0rn, violence and who-knows-what-else online with no filtering whatsoever. But at least they can't blog about it.

The primary purpose of online child-protection laws is to make their supporters look and feel like concerned citizens who protect children. Their efficacy at actually protecting children from anything is laughable.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#99

Post by holograham »

not sure I get how people can assume Google (or any company, person, or government) owes them something. Google provides a free service (which they figured out how to support via ads). They can refuse service to anyone. In this case, google is enforcing a rule that is not even their own. Obviously there is a huge pre-teen advertising market that they cannot capitalize on because of this rule. You have knowingly broken this rule, used the account and got caught. They make is clear when you sign up that you must be over 13. Tough luck.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#100

Post by codexon »

DanBC wrote: post #48
codexon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising to kids is a low to non-profit activity.

What? That's nonsense - look at the hours of merchandise promotion across dozens of channels. Toys is billions of dollars per year.

If the parents are watching TV with them yes.

Is a parent going to look at untargeted (because of COPPA) gmail.com advertisements while their kid bangs out the odd email? No.

The point of targeted advertising from Google is to show you a relevant ad during the few times that you use their app. With COPPA, all of this goes out the window.

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