It has been this way in Colorado for some time, and it has been nothing but fantastic.
I did see a few places offering positions remotely to continental US with Colorado excluded when this came into effect. Has this obscenity ended?
NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
141–150 of 331 posts
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#142I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…
> I'm a recruiter.
I'm a CTO, for context.
> The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone. … I say "I think it will be about $X, but lets put a job ad up and indicate it's top of range $ and see who we get."
As someone pointed out, it sounds like this isn't too hard to do. I've hired people, I've come up with salary ranges. It took some thought, I didn't particularly enjoy the process, but it's possible.
> It is also true that a single job ad might be aiming to employ a number of people at various positions of seniority and experience.
"We're hiring for 10 widget programmers, x senior, y mid, z junior. The salary ranges for these are … and will depend on the skills and experience of the individual candidate"
> It's that easy - if the ad doesn't specify salary and that is a key requirement for you, don't get angry, just don't apply.
I've skipped job adverts in the past because the salary wasn't specified. People care about the wage, it's an incredibly important part of what work is, getting paid, it's one of the largest parts of the deal. Pretending that the wage doesn't matter because your company is special, or because people shouldn't be in it for the money is BS that basically everyone can see through and coming to that realisation will allow companies to have a much better understanding of the relationship they have with with their current and future employees.
Or, if the wage is important after all and you just couldn't be bothered to work it out? I guess just put a bit more time in and work it out. Or don't, and be skipped over.
As someone who sometimes hires people, I'd very much prefer it if all the people that applied had already self-selected on something as simple as the red line that is what people will expect to earn. I really don't want to have to trawl through a load of resumes for people, selecting them for interview, doing the first round etc. only to discover that they want n*2 more than we're offering.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#143I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…
sad that the government is having to regulate you into humane practices. Already in NY and CO im sure this will just keep spreading.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
NYC's Fact sheet about the new law notes that minimum and maximum stated salaries must be in "good faith". Not a lawyer, but maybe this is space for class action lawsuits or something... Salary Transparency Fact Sheet: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/downloads/pdf/publications/...
A knowledge worker's productivity can easily (and provably ) range from -10x to +1000x. So, it's much easier to prove in the court of law that the ranges are justified. Dude who created the React Framework is always 100x valuable to the company than an average Javascript developer. A couple of brilliant dudes is all that is required for a company to be a mere $100 Million company vs $1 Billion company. It's ridiculou…
Can you prove it?
I don't think I've ever met an engineer who is, by themselves, 1000x more productive than even the least productive person I've ever worked with.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Go ask your team lead/CEO/CTO how recruiting works. I've been the team lead and talk to my team lead about this a lot and I know of no serious tech companies that don't actively think about employee retention and recruiting a huge part of which is compensation. Leadership at my company spends a serious amount of time discussing and revising our TC targets. Any company that doesn't know what "they would be willing t…
So what is the precise number you pay your senior developers? Sorry to call you out, but I simply don't believe the answer is anything but "it depends on a range of factors". Unless it is a government job, but even then, likely it depends on a range of factors, and often even government clients flex their budget to meet their recruiting goals.
It's ok if it depends on a range of factors, but those factors should be detailed in the job posting. The candidate should be able to read the ad and calculate what their salary would likely be based on the company's salary determination process.
Most importantly, the ad should reveal the position's maximum salary, so job seekers know how much money is on the table. Ideally, median and average salaries would also be listed.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
> don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone. As an employee, sounds like not my fuckin problem. I'm not about to go through 3 phone screens, a take-home test, a full-day onsite, etc. just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied. > I think it will be about $X Oh! So looks like it's not that hard to ball-park a number off the top of your head. I don't get this "how the world really w…
Why not legislate the other way around? Make it the law that you post how much you're willing to work for on your LinkedIn profile and that you have to supply it to employers at the start of an application process so neither side is wasting time. Seems like that would address all your complaints just as well.
Because ostensibly, governments should be acting on behalf of their citizens (almost all of whom work for a living) rather than their corporations.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#147While I am supportive of this, I expect a lot (majority?) of listings with ranges like "$40k-200k based on experience". (Or the example from the article, "$17-50/hr")
It's a red flag for me when the range from the company is too broad. It sounds like they don't know what they want. If they truly need people of different levels of experience, it would make more sense for them to write separate job descriptions that accurately describe the responsibilities of the role.
> It sounds like they don't know what they want.
In my experience, including at companies I've worked at, that's the case more often than not. Every department is perpetually short of employees, so the hope is to hire anyone halfway competent and figure out their real responsibilities later.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#148I get why employers would hate this, but overall, wouldn't greater transparency in the labor market drive economic growth by virtue of making the labor market more efficient by doing a better job of connecting skilled, hard-working and motivated employees with employers who can pay more?
Companies profit from information asymmetry. Efficiency comes from reducing that asymmetry, but efficiency also means less ability to profit.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#149After reading the Road to Serfdom - this gov mandate feels like it trends toward communism, not a free-market meritocracy. The next thing you know the gov will start assigning $ranges to positions, and qualifications for those positions.
That seems like a big leap but I'll bite. How do you see a connection between "Let people know what salary they're in the running for" and "You must not pay more than XYZ for this job"?
I get that it is possible but I'd be interested if you have reasons for believing it is a real risk beyond a slim chance.
Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings
#150I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…
The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone.
Bullshit. Maybe some start-up with no HR. But, any moderately sized company is buying salary info, working with compa ratios, and has internal salary ranges mapped to positions.