Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 331 posts

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#91

Post by CSMastermind »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #69
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

> don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone. As an employee, sounds like not my fuckin problem. I'm not about to go through 3 phone screens, a take-home test, a full-day onsite, etc. just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied. > I think it will be about $X Oh! So looks like it's not that hard to ball-park a number off the top of your head. I don't get this "how the world really w…

Why not legislate the other way around?

Make it the law that you post how much you're willing to work for on your LinkedIn profile and that you have to supply it to employers at the start of an application process so neither side is wasting time.

Seems like that would address all your complaints just as well.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#93

Post by jedberg »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

> EDIT: lots of unhappy responses to this, but don't shoot the messenger. Go ask your team lead/CEO/CTO how recruiting works.

It sounds like you've missed the point of the responses then. They aren't telling you that you're wrong, they're telling you that how recruiting works needs to change.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#94

Post by chrisdbanks »

As an employer, I am reticent to name a salary range because the fact is that the return on investment of employees is not normally distributed; it follows a power law where the top people return many times the amount of an average person. This may be because of connections, experience, intelligence, or a mixture. When I recruit I always want to hire a top person for whom I'm happy to pay 50% more than an average person, but realistically that's not always possible for me. If I state a salary range then I have to extend it to the amount I'd be willing to play for a top person which would mean if I'd have to settle for an average person then I'd probably set their expectations too high.

My advice is that if you're worried about going through multiple rounds of interviews to get a low offer then the solution is just to be very clear of your expectations up front before you interview. The worst case is that I say I can't afford you. Candidates should know their value too and shouldn't be afraid of letting employers know what they're worth.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#95

Post by brianwawok »

jedberg wrote: post #72
orev wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiters typically get paid a commission based on the final salary, so it’s in their interest to get you as high a salary as possible.

Much like real estate agents, their best interest is to close the deal at any price. They'll make more money getting the employer a bargain and a second req. There is a reason real estate agents homes sell for more than anyone else's -- because they know the real value of the market and have an incentive to go high when it's their own home. Recruiters are the same.

Bingo.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#97

Post by throwaway292939 »

orev wrote: post #66
zerr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your client tells you secretly that the base salary range for the position is 200K-250K. And the prospective employee tells that s/he wants 150K. Would you disclose that s/he can ask up to 250K or would you rather make your client happy by getting them a bargain?

Recruiters typically get paid a commission based on the final salary, so it’s in their interest to get you as high a salary as possible.

This is incorrect. It's in their interest to get as high a salary with the least effort involved.

Obviously for them, being able to close more candidates at a "high enough" salary is preferable.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#98

Post by jedberg »

CSMastermind wrote: post #91
llbeansandrice wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone. As an employee, sounds like not my fuckin problem. I'm not about to go through 3 phone screens, a take-home test, a full-day onsite, etc. just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied. > I think it will be about $X Oh! So looks like it's not that hard to ball-park a number off the top of your head. I don't get this "how the world really w…

Why not legislate the other way around? Make it the law that you post how much you're willing to work for on your LinkedIn profile and that you have to supply it to employers at the start of an application process so neither side is wasting time. Seems like that would address all your complaints just as well.

Because the employers already have more information than the employees. The whole point is to level the playing field. Your suggestion just gives the employers more data.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#99

Post by andrewstuart »

lokar wrote: post #90
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

FWIW, I read that as "let's see what race the applicant is"

People who desire to be offended will see the world through a lens that will allow them to see offense.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#100

Post by Dracophoenix »

jedberg wrote: post #51
deltree7 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A knowledge worker's productivity can easily (and provably ) range from -10x to +1000x. So, it's much easier to prove in the court of law that the ranges are justified. Dude who created the React Framework is always 100x valuable to the company than an average Javascript developer. A couple of brilliant dudes is all that is required for a company to be a mere $100 Million company vs $1 Billion company. It's ridiculou…

The dude who created the react framework (who I happen to know) already knows his worth, and is not getting jobs through public listings. This law isn't for him. Also he is getting higher level jobs. And that's true even further down the line -- if your experience can mean $200K more per year, then those should be two different job listings. One senior and one junior.

This law applies to anyone in New York with no stated exceptions for outliers. If he ever works for a company/satellite office there, whether remote or on-site, he's as much a member of the job market as anyone else. Any company interested in hiring him would obviously provide a massive number at the higher range.
Post reply on HN