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NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

nytimes.com

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Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#71

Post by Spooky23 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

Your client is probably trying to limit your overhead.

I’ve hired hundreds or low thousands of people. Corporate, government, SMB. Never did i go into that process without a budget target or salary band with budget. I would say that to a contract shop or recruiter to avoid having a budget of $100, a bid for $101, and a contractor making $28

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#72

Post by jedberg »

orev wrote: post #66
zerr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your client tells you secretly that the base salary range for the position is 200K-250K. And the prospective employee tells that s/he wants 150K. Would you disclose that s/he can ask up to 250K or would you rather make your client happy by getting them a bargain?

Recruiters typically get paid a commission based on the final salary, so it’s in their interest to get you as high a salary as possible.

Much like real estate agents, their best interest is to close the deal at any price. They'll make more money getting the employer a bargain and a second req.

There is a reason real estate agents homes sell for more than anyone else's -- because they know the real value of the market and have an incentive to go high when it's their own home. Recruiters are the same.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#73

Post by tejtm »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

Are you sure it is not just so current employees are left in the dark as to what they would be worth if they did not already work there?

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#74

Post by andrewstuart »

zerr wrote: post #62
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

If your client tells you secretly that the base salary range for the position is 200K-250K. And the prospective employee tells that s/he wants 150K. Would you disclose that s/he can ask up to 250K or would you rather make your client happy by getting them a bargain?

>> would you rather make your client happy by getting them a bargain

Recruiters are usually paid based on a percentage of the salary. It's actually in the interests of the recruiter that you are paid as much as possible, strictly speaking.

In reality, my goals as recruiter are:

* happy client

* find a new employee who the employer is super happy with six months down the track

* find a new employee who wants and enjoys this job, and will thus stay

* at a salary that the new employee is happy with, that will not have them looking over their shoulder thinking they have udnersold themselves

* at a salary that will ensure we are not beaten to the punch by another higher paying employer

* at a salary that fits the goals of the employer

The idea of "getting an employer a bargain" implies that I don't care about the job seeker. Believe it or not, I do. When someone comes to me who is a great developer, and is asking under market rates, I discuss that will them and let them know where I think market rate is for their skills and experience.

It might sound cliched, but my job is to negotiate a deal that everyone is happy with, and every gets what they want. Anything less will fail because the employee feels they are underpaid, or the employer feels they overpaid.

I believe the above approach to dealing with salary gets everyone what they want. And yes, I the more it is the happier I am, but it would be very much against my interests to manipulate that.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#75

Post by TulliusCicero »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

> If it makes you mad that job ads do not list salary, then there are good reasons and you will just have to get over or it not apply for that job.

Or, we could pass laws forcing companies to do this, and companies could get their shit together and figure out how much they're actually willing to pay.

The nice thing about market capitalism is that companies, for the most part, are fairly flexible. They may not be enthused about posting salary ranges, but if the law says they have to, they'll find a way to make it happen.

It's not entirely unlike how so many businesses prophecy doom and gloom when there's a minimum wage increase, or street parking gets replaced by bike lanes, but then the thing happens and it's generally fine.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#77

Post by squeaky-clean »

jakear wrote: post #20

The place I’m applying simply lists: “Software Development (all levels)” and is an open call for engineers. Salary obviously will depend on experience and interview performance. I don’t see why that’s an issue, a corporatized version of this where each company has to split their postings into 8 different categories or risk excluding complete novices/interns that might join for near free or heavy hitters that would ne…

> split their postings into 8 different categories or risk excluding complete novices/interns that might join for near free

I've been helping a friend who's just out of school and going through the interview ringer. They've already gone through one round of interviews for a posting like that only to be told after 2 interviews (for an internship) "by all experience levels we actually meant a minimum of 2 years industry experience for the lowest level". So now she completely avoids anything that is phrased this way.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#78

Post by ghaff »

filoleg wrote: post #37

I genuinely wonder how this would work for non-cash portions of the total comp. Would they have to declare the dollar value of the shares issued? What about non-public companies that offer a significant chunk of the comp in illiquid stock options?Would they have to be included as a part of the salary range? Disclaimer: I am neither opposed nor in support of this. I don't mind taking that route and seeing how it works…

Presumably stock--and perhaps variable comp bonuses--would not be part of a listed salary range.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#79

Post by bumby »

orev wrote: post #64
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

I think many here will disagree, but this is spot on. Having a fixed salary range also implies there’s a fixed/well-defined set of tasks for that role, which is only applicable to typical lower-level jobs that do repetitive tasks. Once you get into higher skilled positions, the roles become much more flexible and negotiable. The HN crowd is exactly the opposite type of people who would benefit from this. Job definiti…

While it seems logical that a fixed salary implies a fixed set of tasks, I don’t think it holds in practice. I’ve worked my share of fixed salary positions where the day-to-day looks nothing like the job posting. It seems all you have to do is add a clause like “and other duties as assigned”.

There is a chance your duties get so out of whack that you request HR to reinterpret your pay, but not only is that a laborious and somewhat arbitrary process, but it seems both HR and management are incentivized to not rule in the employees favor.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#80

Post by chickenpotpie »

orev wrote: post #64
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

I think many here will disagree, but this is spot on. Having a fixed salary range also implies there’s a fixed/well-defined set of tasks for that role, which is only applicable to typical lower-level jobs that do repetitive tasks. Once you get into higher skilled positions, the roles become much more flexible and negotiable. The HN crowd is exactly the opposite type of people who would benefit from this. Job definiti…

> Once you get into higher skilled positions, the roles become much more flexible and negotiable.

So make the salary range bigger.

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