Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry. • Hacker News Board

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#71

Post by rmrm » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:04 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #64

csmt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd. Instead of not collecting data for children Google is blocking access to children. I am seriously looking for alternatives to Gmail. Any suggestions? I don't want my email account hooked up to a social network and advertising machinery.

It seems like a very straightforward solution to me. If an account is created for a person under-age, suspend ad service to that account (end data collection) and require a nominal fee to activate it (which provides abundant evidence of parental consent). Cutting off the next generation from email does not seem like the answer. Would a Montessori-educated, eight-year-old Sergey Brin have appreciated such treatment? S…

knowing the childs email address in and of itself appears to be data collection in regards to COPPA.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus45-how-comply-childrens...

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#72

Post by sigmaxipi » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:05 PM UTC

There is an interesting rule in COPPA that is the cause of this bad experience: http://www.ftc.gov/privacy/coppafaqs.shtm#teen

For sites that choose to age-screen, age information should be asked in a way that does not invite falsification. See Question 39, below. In addition, we recommend that sites that choose to age-screen employ temporary or permanent cookies to prevent children from back-buttoning to change their age in order to circumvent the parental consent requirement or obtain access to the site

...

However, as described in Question 38, above, should you choose to block children under 13, it is important that you design your age collection input screens in a manner that does not encourage children to provide a false age in order to gain access to your site. If you take reasonable measures to screen for age, then you are not responsible if a child misstates his or her age. For example:

...

Not encouraging children to falsify their age information, for example, by stating that visitors under 13 cannot participate on your website or should ask their parents before participating. In addition, a site that does not ask for neutral date of birth information but rather simply includes a check box stating “I am over 12 years old” would not be considered a neutral age-screening mechanism.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#73

Post by learc83 » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:07 PM UTC

Tangaroa wrote: post #24

If Google did not collect and sell its users' personal information, they would not have to worry about a law saying they can't do that to kids.

That's how they make money. Their entire business model is based on it.

TANSTAAFL, you're paying for their services by acting as their product.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#74

Post by xer0 » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:08 PM UTC

csmt wrote: post #58

danilocampos wrote: post #18

B-b-but Google made this fancy video advertisement about how I can give my infant daughter a Gmail account and write to her as she grows up! Does it only work if she never uses it? You've gotta wait until you can hold a bat mitzvah to hand it off to her? This kind of chicanery is why I can only chuckle when Google announces new initiatives that require significant customer service, like selling telephones or providin…

This is absurd. Instead of not collecting data for children Google is blocking access to children. I am seriously looking for alternatives to Gmail. Any suggestions? I don't want my email account hooked up to a social network and advertising machinery.

Get your own domain and point your email at fastmail.fm.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#75

Post by learc83 » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:08 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #70

learc83 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then everyone who doesn't want data collection or ads, but wants to use google just applies for an under 13 account. Google products are free, they make money on data collection/advertisements. People who they can't advertise to aren't profitable, and it's unlikely a nominal fee would make up for all the overhead. The user is their product not their customer.

So you limit it to 500 MB of storage and show blanket Club Penguin ads instead of targeted ones. Whatever. It's a completely solvable problem. And it's fine if Google doesn't want to solve it. They should just let their ad agency know.

>show blanket Club Penguin ads

OK I concede that one, and it made me laugh.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#76

Post by Kylekramer » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:11 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #59

Kylekramer wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what the age of the reference has to do with anything, but ok, here is a modern one. I write a poem, and send it to my girlfriend via email. Who is the author of the poem? I really don't get how intended recipient = account owner.

> I really don't get how intended recipient = account owner. You can't send an email to someone who doesn't own an email account.

But the commercial isn't about sending emails to your daughter. The account is all emails sent to itself, which the father someday intends to log in and show to his daughter. It is the digital equivalent of keeping a scrapbook. The father creates the scrapbook about his daughter, and then shows it to her. I fail to see anyway this can be seen anything but the father's account.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#77

Post by unabridged » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:15 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #18

B-b-but Google made this fancy video advertisement about how I can give my infant daughter a Gmail account and write to her as she grows up! Does it only work if she never uses it? You've gotta wait until you can hold a bat mitzvah to hand it off to her? This kind of chicanery is why I can only chuckle when Google announces new initiatives that require significant customer service, like selling telephones or providin…

their time as innovative and useful is coming to a halt. they have nearly zero incentive any more to improve, even in their core products. search results everyday become more and more polluted with seo spam. google maps hasn't changed in years, still the same blocky loading and no useful overlays like demographic data built right in.

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#78

Post by danilocampos » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:16 PM UTC

Kylekramer wrote: post #76

danilocampos wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't get how intended recipient = account owner. You can't send an email to someone who doesn't own an email account.

But the commercial isn't about sending emails to your daughter. The account is all emails sent to itself, which the father someday intends to log in and show to his daughter. It is the digital equivalent of keeping a scrapbook. The father creates the scrapbook about his daughter, and then shows it to her. I fail to see anyway this can be seen anything but the father's account.

> But the commercial isn't about sending emails to your daughter

That's very true, as I don't have a daughter. It's about one man sending emails to his daughter.

And the way I know that is it's called "Dear Sophie" and then the dude makes clear Sophie is his daughter. And the script, as written, has the narrator talking and writing to her, and not himself (which would have been less touching, if apparently more legally accurate).

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#79

Post by eurleif » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:16 PM UTC

unabridged wrote: post #77

danilocampos wrote: post #18

B-b-but Google made this fancy video advertisement about how I can give my infant daughter a Gmail account and write to her as she grows up! Does it only work if she never uses it? You've gotta wait until you can hold a bat mitzvah to hand it off to her? This kind of chicanery is why I can only chuckle when Google announces new initiatives that require significant customer service, like selling telephones or providin…

their time as innovative and useful is coming to a halt. they have nearly zero incentive any more to improve, even in their core products. search results everyday become more and more polluted with seo spam. google maps hasn't changed in years, still the same blocky loading and no useful overlays like demographic data built right in.

>google maps hasn't changed in years, still the same blocky loading

MapsGL. http://support.google.com/maps/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answe...

Re: Hey Google, thanks for making my daughter cry.

#80

Post by rmrm » Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 9:16 PM UTC

Vivtek wrote: post #66

dotBen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A parent can't 'over-rule' a federal law. "Hey Mr Food-N-Liquor owner, I give you consent for you to sell my 18 year old alcohol" etc

COPPA explicitly provides for a parental consent mechanism; Google simply doesn't choose to implement it. Everybody else implements it just fine.

Had never tried, so I just tried to create an underage account at Yahoo, they handle it thusly:

Please get your mom or dad! You need your parent or guardian's permission to continue. Show them this screen. Parents, Please Sign-In.

To complete your child's Yahoo! registration:

Sign in with your own Yahoo! ID or sign up for a new account by clicking on the "Create New Account" button below. Confirm your child's information on the next page. You will need a major credit card. To create a Yahoo! ID for your child, we require your consent to collect, use and disclose certain personal information about him or her. You can give this consent by signing in to Yahoo!, reviewing and editing the information your child provided, and then submitting the form on your child's behalf.

You will be charged 50 cents to help confirm that a parent or guardian more than 18 years old is involved. Yahoo! will donate a portion of that charge to charity.

Your child will be able to use most of Yahoo!'s unmoderated services, including Messenger, Mail, Groups and Message Boards. Learn how to make smart and safer choices online and get advice on using Yahoo! products safely.