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NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

nytimes.com

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Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#31

Post by ThunderSizzle »

robertlagrant wrote: post #10
spamizbad wrote: post #2

I get why employers would hate this, but overall, wouldn't greater transparency in the labor market drive economic growth by virtue of making the labor market more efficient by doing a better job of connecting skilled, hard-working and motivated employees with employers who can pay more?

I don't think they'll hate it. If they know what a prospective employee is making, they can offer a minimal increment on that within their (wide) salary range. Currently, only the employer knows their real budget (and that may change if they get the right candidate) and only the employee knows what they'll move for. Salary negotiation is based on those two secrets. This legislation makes the latter secret public know…

> only the employee knows what they'll move for ... This legislation makes [that] secret public knowledge.

Not everyone's motives is the same on this, so it's still secret. Some people will require more than a small bump to move into the risk of an unknown new employer.

Also, some people value flexibility (or rigidity), autonomy, etc. more than money - to the point where some people will pass substantial amounts of money if it means sacrificing real time with the fam.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#32

Post by llbeansandrice »

Carrok wrote: post #7

It has been this way in Colorado for some time, and it has been nothing but fantastic.

There was a ton of push-back online when that law went into effect despite CA having a similar law already on the books and obviously other dominoes (like NYC) getting ready to fall.

It was fantastic in my last job search. Even recruiters that tried to "not talk numbers" until the end of the process I could just point to the relevant laws or just not continue on in the process. Plenty of companies were playing by the rules so no need to waste my time.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#33

Post by sokoloff »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #25
jstx1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what mechanism does legally enforced transparency make the labor market more efficient?

By the same mechanism that makes it work for commodities and public equity markets.

Um, that mechanism is the printing of the actual trades and an open-outcry (now electronic) market-making process for definitionally fungible assets.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#34

Post by sokoloff »

woodruffw wrote: post #17
jstx1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what mechanism does legally enforced transparency make the labor market more efficient?

Pricing transparency eliminates economic triage and uncertainly: if you want to make $XXX, you don't have to apply to 10 different jobs and spend everyone's time determining whether they'll pay you $XXX.

You still don't know if they'll pay you $XXX. You only know that they claim that there exists some hypothetical employee to whom they'd in good faith imagine paying $XXX.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#35

Post by lotsofpulp »

drewpc wrote: post #30
Carrok wrote: post #7

It has been this way in Colorado for some time, and it has been nothing but fantastic.

Can you please expand on this a bit more? I live in Colorado and saw virtually no change when looking for a new job inside and outside of the state last year. I did run across a few "no job applications from CO" as was mentioned in other comment threads, but most job postings I saw did not post salary information.

It was effective Jan 1, 2021.

This is the complaint form if you find an employer not following the law:

https://cdle.colorado.gov/sites/cdle/files/Equal%20Pay%20Com... orm%20Dec%202020_Distributed.pdf

Fact sheet:

https://cdle.colorado.gov/sites/cdle/files/documents/Equal_P...

Actual Law:

https://cdle.colorado.gov/sites/cdle/files/7%20CCR%201103-13...

Other links:

https://cdle.colorado.gov/laws-regulations-guidance

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#36

Post by ender341341 »

CompleteWalker wrote: post #22
gsk22 wrote: post #5

While I am supportive of this, I expect a lot (majority?) of listings with ranges like "$40k-200k based on experience". (Or the example from the article, "$17-50/hr")

NYC's Fact sheet about the new law notes that minimum and maximum stated salaries must be in "good faith". Not a lawyer, but maybe this is space for class action lawsuits or something... Salary Transparency Fact Sheet: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/downloads/pdf/publications/...

Yeah, in the cases where they're like "looking for someone anywhere between college hire & sr engineer inclusive" it'd be nice if it was breaking it out by level/pay band, then people could have a much better idea if it was worth their time

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#37

Post by filoleg »

I genuinely wonder how this would work for non-cash portions of the total comp.

Would they have to declare the dollar value of the shares issued? What about non-public companies that offer a significant chunk of the comp in illiquid stock options?Would they have to be included as a part of the salary range?

Disclaimer: I am neither opposed nor in support of this. I don't mind taking that route and seeing how it works out. I see the potential downsides and upsides, and neither seem to be extremely impactful. So it feels like there is little harm in testing it out, even if it ends up being a nothingburger.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#38

Post by sokoloff »

joncp wrote: post #29
henryfjordan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a lot of WFH job postings from the past few years that said "No applicants from Colorado" because of their similar law. CA and a few other states have recently enacted this same law though so it'll become a lot harder to avoid posting the salary if you want good candidates.

I haven't seen those postings, but I imagine that would make a terrible first impression to potential candidates, effectively signalling that the company is committed to playing games with salaries.

Or one which is committed to not kowtowing to every jurisdiction that comes up with their own custom laws.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#40

Post by matteotom »

My biggest annoyance with most salary transparency law compliance is companies pretend they'll accept anyone in any location at levels between 1 and 5, resulting in ranges like "$85k" (lowest paid location, level 1) to "$250k" (highest paid location, level 5) - when they're (internally) looking for "level 3 or 4".
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