Elon doesn't understand that software companies aren't about the tech but the people.
Wouldn't be surprised if Twitter loses some 9s & other quality and a competitor eats their lunch with a clone. Reminds me of the death of Digg.
Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
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Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#32Not only this, but he's demanding people work 12+ hour days through weekends or get fired "for cause". He's doing everything he can to make layoffs happen without actually laying people off, which sure seems like he's trying to evade California's 60 day warning for layoffs. I suspect we'll see him in court over how this was handled.
I guess the question is, what are the limits on how you treat existing employees to avoid laws regarding layoffs by forcing a mass exodus?
Up to but not including "constructive dismissal". The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission(EEOC) provides a three part test to evaluate constructive dismissal[1]:
1. a reasonable person in the complainant's position would have found the working conditions intolerable
2. conduct that constituted discrimination against the complainant created the intolerable working conditions
3. the complainant's involuntary resignation resulted from the intolerable working conditions
The test isn't necessarily something we would be able to make a definitive decision on here. It is intended to be used in the courtroom where each component would be necessary to establish constructive dismissal and evidence for and contrary to each point would be presented to a judge/jury.
As you can rightly assume "reasonable", "intolerable", and "discrimination" are doing a lot of heavy lifting, and I'd expect and decision to rest on what constitutes "reasonable", "intolerable", and "discrimination".
1. https://federalemployeelawblog.com/2017/07/10/constructive-d...
Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think most people in the community recognize that Musk is a pretty abusive boss, and everyone really good is leaving the company. There are a few people who can't protect themselves from a predator, and those people will get relentlessly predated upon until they learn their lesson. It may well be fine: even Truth Social (mostly) works, and nobody thinks they're hiring the best engineers in the world. I mean as long…
You really think Tesla and SpaceX have accomplished as much as they have with no one good at the company? Why is Twitter different?
Yeah, that was a really weird post. Labelling Musk "abusive" and characterizing him as a "predator," and then a veiled threat about possible hacking from all of the people who have root on the boxes.
Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#34Elon doesn't understand that software companies aren't about the tech but the people. Wouldn't be surprised if Twitter loses some 9s & other quality and a competitor eats their lunch with a clone. Reminds me of the death of Digg.
Isn't Jack Dorsey already launching a clone? Blue-sky or something
Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not only this, but he's demanding people work 12+ hour days through weekends or get fired "for cause". Question from Europe: Is that actually legal in the US? :-O
Yes. The set of conditions that make it illegal to fire somebody in the US are very very small. "I need everybody to crunch 80 hour weeks for months and months" is a thing employers can do for most forms of white collar knowledge work.
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Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#36>There'll be plenty of people willing to work for cheap for Musk Is this true? I buy that there are plenty of people willing to work on Tesla or SpaceX or even things like hyperloop. But do people have the same passion for Twitter?
There are definitely some Elon Musk fanboys out there. They're just not on HN.
What's kind of annoying is that as a Tesla owner, many people assume I'm an Elon fanboy. Nah, I don't really like him. I applaud his ability to take risks, but I wish he'd shut the hell up sometimes.
Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#37He's mentioned several times that him expecting his employees to work 10-12 hours a day is ok because he himself works 18+ hours. How does he expect to retain employees when other companies pay way more than Tesla does for way fewer work hours? Am I missing something?
It is just so hard to believe that the man is working 18 hour days given how much time he spends pulling stupid fucking stunts.
I am completely certain he considers "posting on twitter" etc to be "work", even before he started the Twitter acquisition game.
Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#38Elon has a fascinating ability to make people look at things from his point of view. Suppose the story was something like “Jeff Bezos acquires company, immediately slashes workforce, maneuvers to avoid paying severance, reportedly forces engineers to work nights and weekends under threat of dismissal (and probably will lay them off anyway).” The tech community would be pretty united in saying the engineers would have…
I've always thought that those people are the ones who must have made out like bandits when TSLA was in the upswing. There used to be stories about TSLA millionaires. Those people still exist somewhere. I assume many are thinking Musk can do no wrong given he changed their lives.
Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#39>There'll be plenty of people willing to work for cheap for Musk Is this true? I buy that there are plenty of people willing to work on Tesla or SpaceX or even things like hyperloop. But do people have the same passion for Twitter?
There are definitely some Elon Musk fanboys out there. They're just not on HN. What's kind of annoying is that as a Tesla owner, many people assume I'm an Elon fanboy. Nah, I don't really like him. I applaud his ability to take risks, but I wish he'd shut the hell up sometimes.
I think most of the fanboys like him for his personality, and don't actually have any relevant technical skills. They commonly think building your own PC(literally, plugging things into the only slot they will fit into) is the pinnacle of tech geekiness.
Re: Theory of what’s going to happen next at Twitter
#40I know we’re averse to unions in this industry, but if there was ever a time and place for a tech engineering union it’s right now at Twitter.