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RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

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Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#41

Post by GoblinSlayer »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #23

It was always a bit confusing how RIPE got around the Crimea switchover in 2014. They must have found a way to reallocate the system over to Russian companies as Ukranian ISPs no longer serve the region, but how they managed to do so without officially acknowledging Russian sovereignty is a mystery. Especially since they keep extensive paperwork. I asked about it on SE, https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/64179/d…

>Ukranian ISPs no longer serve the region

Maybe that's the reason?

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#42

Post by pjc50 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #39
tbrownaw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels more like a thing that "just happened" rather than something that was intentionally done. Blogs and such are still there, they just take an much work as they always have. And the centralized sites don't require nearly as much intentionality.

> rather than something that was intentionally done Normal users cannot even put a link into an instagram post (pointing to whatever external site).... it seems pretty intentional to me (to keep you on their platform)

Intentionally done .. as an anti-spam measure. It's also there to limit the extent to which Instagram is part of OnlyFans customer acquisition.

As someone who lived through it, I don't think decentrafans really appreciate that we had decentralised services and spam turned them into unusable wastelands.

AI makes this worse, not better: the chance that a random site which looks like an interesting personal blog or small forum is a disguised sales op increases.

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#43

Post by GoblinSlayer »

humble_dude_1 wrote: post #33
t-3 wrote: post #22

These problems could be easily solved by moving to IPv6, but that doesn't leave any room for rent-seeking, so people would rather complain about nonsense like stealing IP addresses.

"There is no downside to IPv6, besides inertia."

I thought IPv4 is used in order to not rebuild infrastructure from scratch.

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#44

Post by jpe90 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #24
pjc50 wrote: post #18

Starting to wonder how much the global takeoff of the Internet and specifically the WWW was due to the "end of history" period from 1989-2001, when there wasn't significant conflict between major powers. I suspect the spillover from this will be increasing Balkanisation of the Internet simply in order to limit the extent to which it's a cyberwarfare or propaganda battlefield.

> limit the extent to which it's a cyberwarfare or propaganda battlefield. This was already done years ago by concentrating "the internet" and limiting it to a few companies with ban-hammers ready. What once used to be many many different personal webpages, blogs, forums, chat sites (and protocols), is now basically limited to facebook (facebook, whatsapp, instagram), twitter and google (plus some outliers, such as t…

Personal webpages and blogs still very much exist, though. I started one recently and I'm positive it gets more traffic than it would if I started it 20 years ago. I don't think censorship is the issue so much as the fact that many more people hopped on the internet and are more interested in social media than small blogs, even though they coexist.

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#45

Post by rsj_hn »

bombcar wrote: post #26
MichaelZuo wrote: post #23

It was always a bit confusing how RIPE got around the Crimea switchover in 2014. They must have found a way to reallocate the system over to Russian companies as Ukranian ISPs no longer serve the region, but how they managed to do so without officially acknowledging Russian sovereignty is a mystery. Especially since they keep extensive paperwork. I asked about it on SE, https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/64179/d…

The reality that people don't want to admit in all these things is that the laws, etc, get pushed aside to acknowledge the "reality" in the end - might makes right and possession is 9/10ths of the law always triumphs. And those involved often know not to push things too far when it's "working" - something like "we'll let the Russians route these IPs as long as they don't crow about routing these IPs".

This reminds me of the Chinese revolution, where after the Communists took control of everything except Taiwan, many international organizations continued to insist that Taiwan was the actual representative of China, and Taiwan held the Chinese vote at the UN until 1971. So that's about 22 years of pretending.

I'm no fan of either communism or the chinese revolution, but I always thought that was ridiculous, that a country so big as China had no UN representation except via Taiwan, and that Taiwan held a permanent member UN security council seat.

If, for example, Russia conquers all of Ukraine, then how long will some guy sitting in London keep pretending to be the Government of Ukraine? At some point, all the social media accounts, internet registries, country codes, etc -- they have to be updated to reflect reality.

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#46

Post by prvit »

wmf wrote: post #40
prvit wrote: post #10

It is pretty surprising that RIPEs solution to sanctions is to just offer their services for free to those who can’t pay due to sanctions.

Apparently the sanctions also don't requite cutting Internet access to Russia. As long as Russia is still on the Internet we should maintain accurate records. If that means maintaining records for free, so be it. This is akin to the fact that some US states will issue identification to people regardless of their immigration status.

IPv4 space is a super scarce resource, this is IPv4 space held by non-paying RIPE members. Why should it not be distributed among paying members, many of which are desperate for more IPv4?

It’s not like it’s impossible for Russian entities to pay either, I regularly receive payments to my European account from Russian companies.

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#48

Post by samstave »

pjc50 wrote: post #18

Starting to wonder how much the global takeoff of the Internet and specifically the WWW was due to the "end of history" period from 1989-2001, when there wasn't significant conflict between major powers. I suspect the spillover from this will be increasing Balkanisation of the Internet simply in order to limit the extent to which it's a cyberwarfare or propaganda battlefield.

uhm... kosovo, congo, rwanda???

Fucking massive genocides happen in the 90s.

But if youre solely talking about cyber war -- ESCHELON, CARNIVOR I mean cyber war was super deep... NSA was requiring backdoor access to all routers as early as 1995... and not only that Cerberos group bought MAE-West in San jose and PAIX in palo alto to spy on everyone... I know a lot about these spying ops.

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#49

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

samstave wrote: post #48
pjc50 wrote: post #18

Starting to wonder how much the global takeoff of the Internet and specifically the WWW was due to the "end of history" period from 1989-2001, when there wasn't significant conflict between major powers. I suspect the spillover from this will be increasing Balkanisation of the Internet simply in order to limit the extent to which it's a cyberwarfare or propaganda battlefield.

uhm... kosovo, congo, rwanda??? Fucking massive genocides happen in the 90s. But if youre solely talking about cyber war -- ESCHELON, CARNIVOR I mean cyber war was super deep... NSA was requiring backdoor access to all routers as early as 1995... and not only that Cerberos group bought MAE-West in San jose and PAIX in palo alto to spy on everyone... I know a lot about these spying ops.

The OP said major western powers.

Re: RIPE meetings: IP addresses as spoils of war

#50

Post by rascul »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #43
humble_dude_1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is no downside to IPv6, besides inertia."

I thought IPv4 is used in order to not rebuild infrastructure from scratch.

Does infrastructure need to be rebuilt from scratch for ipv6?
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