US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions • Hacker News Board

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#21

Post by tekla » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

Good, it took a while, but "lets not discriminate based on race" seems to be a fairly easily defensible position.

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#22

Post by xdavidliu » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

arberx wrote: post #13

kennend3 wrote: post #3

I so hope this is struck down. ""Americans have come to view diversity as integral to learning and to trust that the path to leadership is open to all," lawyers representing Harvard University wrote in a court filing." This is not true, and the Asians who were denied entry based on their race would agree. What ever happened to access based on merit?

A true meritocracy wouldn't be a friendly world to live in. Think about the current state of education. Parents with resources over-optimize their kids' education because they understand the inefficiencies in the system and/or understand what it takes to become successful in our society.

some may argue that affirmative action, as it currently is implemented, does not directly address disparities in resources, but rather uses race as a proxy for resources (which would be controversial)

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#23

Post by whimsicalism » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

kennend3 wrote: post #17

epgui wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to it refers to a concept called the meritocracy trap.

Let's say you need open heart surgery. Doctor one has a 3.9 GPA from Harvard medical. Doctor two barely passed your state's medical school Which do you want doing your operation? The "meritocracy trap" often caves into "wealth and privilege" and this is not meritocracy.

Those signals are not as important to being a successful surgeon as you think.

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#24

Post by ck2 » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

> Nine US states - including California, Florida, Georgia and Michigan - currently prohibit the use of race as a factor in admissions for public universities

Sounds like instead of doing polls on opinions and "gut think" that there are already large real-world examples that can be examined precisely to see what that policy does or doesn't accomplish.

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#25

Post by ajsnigrutin » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

About time.

The whole idea behind it is stupid and racist... "if you're a certain skin color, you're too stupid, to compete on merit"... then when people complain, they add the "socioeconomic" factors: "if you're a certain color, you're too poor to compete on merit, but instead of looking at your family income, we'll look at your skin color".

I have no idea how something like this gets support in developed western countries.

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#26

Post by nradov » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

We should stop differentiating people by race, but whichever side loses this particular case can take solace in the fact that it won't make a huge difference either way. Studies have shown very little difference in average long-term career outcomes between highly selective and less selective colleges, after controlling for SAT scores and high school class ranking. Let's stop fetishizing schools like Harvard.

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#27

Post by anotherman554 » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

kennend3 wrote: post #17

epgui wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to it refers to a concept called the meritocracy trap.

Let's say you need open heart surgery. Doctor one has a 3.9 GPA from Harvard medical. Doctor two barely passed your state's medical school Which do you want doing your operation? The "meritocracy trap" often caves into "wealth and privilege" and this is not meritocracy.

Since we're talking about surgery, wouldn't hand-eye coordination be more important than the GPA from Harvard medical?

Re: US Supreme Court to weigh end to race-based college admissions

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

arberx wrote: post #13

kennend3 wrote: post #3

I so hope this is struck down. ""Americans have come to view diversity as integral to learning and to trust that the path to leadership is open to all," lawyers representing Harvard University wrote in a court filing." This is not true, and the Asians who were denied entry based on their race would agree. What ever happened to access based on merit?

A true meritocracy wouldn't be a friendly world to live in. Think about the current state of education. Parents with resources over-optimize their kids' education because they understand the inefficiencies in the system and/or understand what it takes to become successful in our society.

> Parents with resources over-optimize their kids' education because they understand the inefficiencies in the system and/or understand what it takes to become successful in our society

This is a perfectly fine response to meritocratic pressure. With tuning to ensure the response is productive learning, versus e.g. rote memorisation, the outcome should be a more-productive citizenry.

In any event, the case is about race-based affirmative action. Nobody is going after means-based anything.