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Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

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Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#191

Post by adrianN »

roenxi wrote: post #152
SnaggyJoker wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also switch to a water conserving mist shower and reduce the amount of heated water used for the shower. You could also reclaim the water from the shower for use in the toilet by turning the supply to the toilet off and manually transferring it to the toilet tank. There are lots of things you could do to save resources but most things are not done and are not going to be done because it is inconvenient and…

> There are lots of things you could do to save resources but most things are not done and are not going to be done because it is inconvenient and takes time, and time is money. This is radically underselling how much most people are willing to do for 50 pounds. If people are being squeezed out of their lifestyle due to energy costs (which seems quite likely, looking at the aggregate stats) they'd spend the time to c…

The global crisis is not because we under invested in the future of fossil fuels. They must have no future. The current crisis is because we relied on Putin.

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#193

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

anigbrowl wrote: post #129
SnaggyJoker wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also switch to a water conserving mist shower and reduce the amount of heated water used for the shower. You could also reclaim the water from the shower for use in the toilet by turning the supply to the toilet off and manually transferring it to the toilet tank. There are lots of things you could do to save resources but most things are not done and are not going to be done because it is inconvenient and…

Britain is not suffering a water shortage, nor is it likely to in any foreseeable future. Not that I'm encouraging people to waste water, but conserving water doesn't address the unfavorable economics of energy.

Saw this a couple of years ago in the Grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/18/england-...

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#194

Post by frosted-flakes »

mvhvv wrote: post #122
sixstringtheory wrote: post #82

In addition to things like heat exchangers or reducing the amount of time/water in a shower, is there any work being done around optimizing the amount of time a hot water heater keeps the water at high temp? I’ve thought about this for extended absences but this could also bring potential benefits if it just doesn’t run for certain portions of the day or middle of the night.

I'm not sure if things are different outside Australia, but it's probably been 15-20 years since I've lived in a house with a hot-water storage tank. As far as I know most places seem to have instant/continuous systems that heat the water on demand as it passes through the line. Solar-heating definitely makes storage make more sense, but I don't know how the numbers actually work out on that one.

Or for heat pump water heaters, which have unbeatable efficiency. Still not cost-effective in many areas compared to gas-burning heaters, but they use much less energy.

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#195

Post by frosted-flakes »

tempestn wrote: post #111
nicd wrote: post #107

This reminds me of a "re-circulating shower" concept I was looking into recently. By filtering and re-using shower water, it saves both water and heating energy. There is a company in Sweden doing this: https://orbital-systems.com/ . There's a bit of an ick factor, but with filtration, it seems this should be more hygienic than bathing? My family remains unconvinced though ;)

Most people are fine with hot tubs aka spas, which are essentially this. (In fact most spa designs don't even filter all the water on each re-circulation, as there are returns both at the bottom and in the skimmer, and only the latter is filtered.) Re-circulating shower sounds like a great idea to me.

But you don't wash in a hot tub, and you usually shower before entering them.

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#196

Post by socialismisok »

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #132
ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote: post #80

I appreciate this attitude: > Should you do this? > I render no judgment! > But here’s a thought: It’s OK to use energy for convenience. This is true even in a time of crisis. After all, only a small fraction of the energy we use is necessary to stay alive. We could live dirty and shivering in dark rooms, eating oats and only moving around on foot. But no one does. So the question is how much energy you want to use f…

I couldn't agree more. That type of sentiment is pervasive, and it's absolutely baffling, because we as a society can keep all our excesses and comforts while making the consequential energy expenditures completely green. It seems like people are just incapable of conceiving of solutions that don't involve morally shaming others into being less happy. Or a more cynical take: It seems like a lot of people enjoy "solut…

Many of these things are holdovers from an earlier era. Have you ever used a shower from the 30s? It's like a wall of water. Using something like that compared to a generic showerhead today is wasteful. But now we're at diminishing returns territory, eking out every fractional water savings.

I think the answer is actually neither "you are bad for doing x" nor "doing x is fine", but rather that intentionality is important. Taking time to think of your impact on others and saying, "I'll sacrifice here and put a burden on others there" with intention is fine. I'm flying to my grandmother's funeral. I recognize this pumps tons of carbon into the air. I'm intentionally conscious of this and acting in a way I think others should be allowed to (funerals are important!)

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#197

Post by fomine3 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #163

I've noticed that people wildly overestimate the environmental impact of things they personally touch. This, I theorize, is why sub-rounding error things like plastic straws, plastic bags, cups, etc get such disproportionate attention. Bathwater that heats every pore of our naked bodies is probably even more susceptible to this bias.

Plastic straws are too minor and alternative is too crap, so it's outlier. Heating water is somewhat a bigger thing.

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#198

Post by socialismisok »

socialismisok wrote: post #196
mrshadowgoose wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. That type of sentiment is pervasive, and it's absolutely baffling, because we as a society can keep all our excesses and comforts while making the consequential energy expenditures completely green. It seems like people are just incapable of conceiving of solutions that don't involve morally shaming others into being less happy. Or a more cynical take: It seems like a lot of people enjoy "solut…

Many of these things are holdovers from an earlier era. Have you ever used a shower from the 30s? It's like a wall of water. Using something like that compared to a generic showerhead today is wasteful. But now we're at diminishing returns territory, eking out every fractional water savings. I think the answer is actually neither "you are bad for doing x" nor "doing x is fine", but rather that intentionality is impor…

That said, driving a car by yourself is pretty bad for many, many reasons (safety, efficiency, pollution, road damage, parking needed, noise, tire and brake dust, and about a million other things.)

It's ok to make bad and inefficient decisions, imo, if you are doing so intentionally rather than just because that's the default.

It's about thoughtfulness, awareness, and intentionality.

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#199

Post by zimpenfish »

anigbrowl wrote: post #135
nly wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hosepipe bans are pretty common in the UK due to water shortages

I think that has more to do with under-investment in infrastructure. Britain does have recurring droughts but they're pretty shallow.

> I think that has more to do with under-investment in infrastructure.

We have a lot of leaky pipes. I don't get around as much as I used to but it's not uncommon for me to see a different leak every time I go for a walk around SE London.

Re: Re-using the heat in bathwater in Britain

#200

Post by socialismisok »

fsckboy wrote: post #183

I just want to put in a word for standard microeconomic theory. If our water (or energy) use in aggregate suggests to the govt that our consumption needs to go down, then raise the price of water (or energy) across the board till it does. Individuals can choose which of all your amazing water (and heat) savings ideas they feel would best suit them.

Doesn't this approach hurt the poor a lot more though? Like, if my mum suddenly got charged more for her heat, she might have to live in a cold house, which would make her deeply uncomfortable or even sick.
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