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Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

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Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#91
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen combustion doesn't produce co2, optimize a petrol-fueled ICE all you want and it's still a problem WRT emissions. I think the assumption is that hydrogen fuel would be produced via "green" electricity sources like wind/solar/nuclear.

There is that subtle issue of how do you get hydrogen.... Takes energy to make it.

Takes energy to mine+process the contents for and charge batteries too.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#92
This is nothing new, I remember an episode of “That’s Incredible!” from the early 80s that featured a bunch of college students that created a car that got 100 miles per gallon. The problem has always been that advancements in clean power get bought up by the oil companies and buried. That sucks for consumers in the hear and now, but it is a really smart move by big oil - if the petrol gravytrain ever runs dry big oil can fall back on their extensive patent portfolios and continue to be front and center in the energy game no matter where it is played.

I wouldn’t be surprised if all those wind farms that have popped up in the mid-west were actually owned by some subsidiary of an oil company.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#93
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they be? You want a fuel bladder: https://www.liquidcontainment.com.au/category/2/Fuel-Bladder...

When I think “Jerry can” I think the very specific rigid 20L vessel. I guess we can call other things a Jerry can too. I’m curious if these are legally allowed in Canada. If so they seem decent!

"Legality" is going to vary wildly - if you are carrying fuel in the trunk, you're probably pretty restricted, but you may be able to get away with various other mounting options - and I'm sure you can buy them even if you can't run them.

I'd also search out "off road" people and forums, though they may not specialize in your vehicle, they probably know the various rules and regulations.

https://www.zuksoffroadcanada.ca/Gas-Tank-15-Gallon_p_997.ht... does exist, so I'm sure there's things out there. People modifying vehicles for Nunavut or the Australian Outback would be places I'd start.

So do things like : https://masterhitch.com/catalog/truck-suv-accessories/auxili... but I'd be a bit wary of bolting gas tanks to the rear bumper/trailer hitch myself.

And many rules will stop applying once you are "off road" whatever that means in your area.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#94
post #75

Some time ago I saw a presentation from the chaos computer club where an expert on the matter explained there is a lot of misunderstandings about hydrogen technology as an energy source and how is gonna useful for society and why it is necessary. In a nutshell some industries that currently rely on natural gas cannot switch effectively to electricity, hydrogen seems to be the only solution at the moment. Regarding tr…

Batteries needed electric vehicles are still expensive and seem to essentially be the bottleneck for mass change to EV. The infrastructure needed to support battery electric vehicles seem to be expensive/complex to run sufficiently well in practice. In the US Tesla's supercharger network is often cited as a moat against other manufacturers. It's not even building the chargers - it's maintenance and compatibility. Cha…

Yes, batteries are in short supply. We have been increasing battery supplies, energy density, and reducing nickel and cobalt for a decade. Theres's basically endless demand today. I'm sorry but your comments are basically standard and inccurate fud against EVs.

Tesla already announced they were going to make their us charging network support the us ccs standard for charging. In Europe they have been rolling it out to all cars (that all use the same standard plug) for a few years. Tesla chargers in Europe that are already working for competitor cars are not ruinously expensive. The reason tesla got so much market share was their competitors are very threatened by the transition to a completely new drive train, making their billions of dollars in investments in design of ICE engines, but also the entirety of mufflers, alternators, emissions controls, spark plugs just worthless scrap over time. Of course they all wanted to keep doing something like an ice engine, Toyota wanted hydrogen, etc.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#95
post #76

Somewhat off-topic: why "2k kilometers" instead of 2 megameters? I do realize that in daily life people rarely use distances of that order of magnitude, but the semantic connections between kilobits megabits, kilowatts megawatts appears to be entirely accessible to essentially all adults, so why use the awkward "thousands of kilometers" instead?

I'm admittedly American, but I've literally never heard "megameters" used outside of a classroom. I know what 1000km is like without thinking, but I have no immediate intuition for a megameter is unless I think about it.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#96

This is nothing new, I remember an episode of “That’s Incredible!” from the early 80s that featured a bunch of college students that created a car that got 100 miles per gallon. The problem has always been that advancements in clean power get bought up by the oil companies and buried. That sucks for consumers in the hear and now, but it is a really smart move by big oil - if the petrol gravytrain ever runs dry big oi…

I won’t speak to the extent that oil/fossil fuel business has suppressed clean energy (not that I’m disputing it, I think it’s more complicated though and don’t care to comment on that in this context). But I will say I’ve seen huge wind farms built atop huge, now-idle oil operations eg across large parts of central Texas. Never looked into whether they’re owned by the same oil companies but it sure wouldn’t surprise me.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#97
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like the worst of both worlds at the first glance. However depends by the costs of batteries. In a world with an abundance/excess of green energy but expensive batteries to store it hydrogen makes sense. The conversion of electricity->hydrogen->electricity is quite inneficient so batteries better be cheap enough otherwise we will go the hydrogen way for cars as well.

I think you’re under the impression that it requires the hydrogen generator? You can use the hydrogen tank if you are without somewhere to charge the vehicle, but you can also just use it as a traditional EV and charge as you normally would.

Why not add a gas engine too, for places where you only have gas and not electricity or hydrogen? Because it's unnecessary weight to carry around. Toyota and Japan pushed hydrogen for a long time because their industrial base is so focused on gas/diesel drive trains. Their vast investments and expertise will be worthless as we leave it behind. They've also never made any progress getting away from hydrogen coming from fossil fuels. h is not a great fuel source because it's so much less dense than carbon fuels, you can't get far on one tank. It has two benefits, easy to refuel, and burning it doesn't produce pollution, but the negative of coming from fossil fuels kills it.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I can't even refill my damn inkjet without the manufacturer doing their damnedest to get me to pay multiples for what's essentially commodity ink. I have no faith that hydrogen won't work the same.

There is little political will to regulate printer cartridges. Cars on the other hand are heavily regulated.

The oil industry, I can assure you, would be quick to lobby for little standardization and regulation on hydrogen exactly for the reason they they want it to be in the same sorry state as printer ink

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#99
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they be? You want a fuel bladder: https://www.liquidcontainment.com.au/category/2/Fuel-Bladder...

When I think “Jerry can” I think the very specific rigid 20L vessel. I guess we can call other things a Jerry can too. I’m curious if these are legally allowed in Canada. If so they seem decent!

They are legal and quite popular (for motorcycle raids across large unhabitated areas) in many countries; maybe also in Canada, but I am not a lawyer.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#100

This is nothing new, I remember an episode of “That’s Incredible!” from the early 80s that featured a bunch of college students that created a car that got 100 miles per gallon. The problem has always been that advancements in clean power get bought up by the oil companies and buried. That sucks for consumers in the hear and now, but it is a really smart move by big oil - if the petrol gravytrain ever runs dry big oi…

I won’t speak to the extent that oil/fossil fuel business has suppressed clean energy (not that I’m disputing it, I think it’s more complicated though and don’t care to comment on that in this context). But I will say I’ve seen huge wind farms built atop huge, now-idle oil operations eg across large parts of central Texas. Never looked into whether they’re owned by the same oil companies but it sure wouldn’t surprise…

There used to be nothing but farmland and horizon driving through Amarillo - at night it was like driving through a void except for the occasional (usually closed) gas station that left a light on. Today it’s a surreal alien landscape day and night with all the wind turbines and their aircraft warning lights.
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