Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#31

Post by bonzini » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

kolinko wrote: post #10

valine wrote: post #6

The problem with hydrogen is the lack of infrastructure. EVs have suffered from the same problem too but are arguably over the hump. Starting from zero again with range anxiety and no fueling stations sounds exhausting.

On top of that it’s way more difficult to install a hydrogen charging station than an ev-charging station. On the other hand, in Poland at least, natural gas charging stations managed to get enough traction - every gas station ofers LPG here.

Hydrogen is a lot harder to store, because it makes metals brittle.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#32

Post by bryanlarsen » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

vletal wrote: post #17

geijoenr wrote: post #14

Some time ago I saw a presentation from the chaos computer club where an expert on the matter explained there is a lot of misunderstandings about hydrogen technology as an energy source and how is gonna useful for society and why it is necessary. In a nutshell some industries that currently rely on natural gas cannot switch effectively to electricity, hydrogen seems to be the only solution at the moment. Regarding tr…

What is there problem with small vehicles?

EV's are about 3X as efficient turning electricity into motion as hydrogen cars are. Here's a good graphic from Volkswagen laying it out very clearly.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1127660_battery-electri...

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#33

Post by Animats » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

This is "filed a patent on", not "developed". They may just have a benchtop fuel cell model.

Range here is mostly about installed tank size. A Greyhound bus can travel about 2k kilometers on one fill-up.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#34

Post by hdjsksjd » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

TruthWillHurt wrote: post #13

What the hell is this weird "news" site? Next article is about MotoGP bikes switching from 2-strokes to 4. That was 20 years ago! And a poor translation at that.. https://www.ruetir.com/2022/10/30/motomondiale-2002-yamaha-y...

No post body was provided.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#35

Post by vitus » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #33

This is "filed a patent on", not "developed". They may just have a benchtop fuel cell model. Range here is mostly about installed tank size. A Greyhound bus can travel about 2k kilometers on one fill-up.

Exactly this.

A modern sedan might get 40 miles to the gallon, but only has a tank of maybe 13 gallons (for a range of 500 miles / 800km).

Meanwhile the bus gets "only" 6 mpg but has a 200-gallon tank to compensate.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#36

Post by gernb » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

I've gotten used to the idea that it seems like if I get a solar roof and power system that I can charge my electric car during the zombie apocalypse, where as AFAIK, I can't easily create gasoline or enough hydrogen for a hydrogen powered car.

Right?

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#37

Post by jonwest » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

thefounder wrote: post #27

jonwest wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about using hydrogen as a generator for an EV like in the Hyundai 74 concept? I’m far from an expert but something like that, at least intuitively, feels like a nice compromise with having portability of fuel, but still allowing for alternative power sources via electricity (like if grid power was sourced via solar, hydro, wind, etc).

Looks like the worst of both worlds at the first glance. However depends by the costs of batteries. In a world with an abundance/excess of green energy but expensive batteries to store it hydrogen makes sense. The conversion of electricity->hydrogen->electricity is quite inneficient so batteries better be cheap enough otherwise we will go the hydrogen way for cars as well.

I think you’re under the impression that it requires the hydrogen generator? You can use the hydrogen tank if you are without somewhere to charge the vehicle, but you can also just use it as a traditional EV and charge as you normally would.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#38

Post by plextoria » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

gernb wrote: post #36

I've gotten used to the idea that it seems like if I get a solar roof and power system that I can charge my electric car during the zombie apocalypse, where as AFAIK, I can't easily create gasoline or enough hydrogen for a hydrogen powered car. Right?

Hydrogen can be created using electricity and water. Who will create a new battery once yours dies out?

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#39

Post by bryanlarsen » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

geijoenr wrote: post #14

Some time ago I saw a presentation from the chaos computer club where an expert on the matter explained there is a lot of misunderstandings about hydrogen technology as an energy source and how is gonna useful for society and why it is necessary. In a nutshell some industries that currently rely on natural gas cannot switch effectively to electricity, hydrogen seems to be the only solution at the moment. Regarding tr…

The best balanced overview of hydrogen's future I've seen has been the Hydrogen Science Coalition: https://h2sciencecoalition.com/principles/

Green hydrogen is desperately required to produce fertilizer cleanly, so it is a problem that must be solved. It also looks very promising in a couple of other industrial processes, like the production of steel.

And that's about all we can say with any degree of certainty.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#40

Post by p1mrx » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

kolinko wrote: post #10

valine wrote: post #6

The problem with hydrogen is the lack of infrastructure. EVs have suffered from the same problem too but are arguably over the hump. Starting from zero again with range anxiety and no fueling stations sounds exhausting.

On top of that it’s way more difficult to install a hydrogen charging station than an ev-charging station. On the other hand, in Poland at least, natural gas charging stations managed to get enough traction - every gas station ofers LPG here.

LPG != natural gas