Wiring my home with fiber • Hacker News Board

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#91

Post by bombcar » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #88

latchkey wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently in the process of literally tearing down walls in my old house (built in the 40's). I used to fear smashing into walls. Once you do a bit of drywall and mud yourself, you realize it isn't that big of a deal. Everything I've learned has been off YT videos and there are some excellent channels with all of the professional tips and tricks. It isn't rocket science by a long shot.

Yep, this was one of my great enlightenments: no matter how good or professional a wall looks, it's really just drywall mounted on wood, some cracks sealed, and then painted over. When the walls are off in the house is the best time to get anything done. Sometimes I don't even want to put the walls back on- for example, an unfinished garage with exposed studs is very convenient.

I may someday use shiplap instead of drywall in specific rooms, simply because you can make it so you can take it off and put it back on relatively easily.

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#92

Post by bombcar » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

uncanneyvalley wrote: post #52

Someone1234 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. In most US homes, by code, there needs to be a fire-stop between floors but also for practical reasons there are often cross-bracing mid way up each wall, therefore going from one place to another often involves multiple holes in drywall (which is relatively inexpensive, but also a dusty/annoying nightmare to patch). If I built a home I'd add conduit, but that's an extremely niche idea.

A flexible drill bit[1] can be used to pass a horizontal member within a wall. You can enter the wall through an outlet hole or use the length of the bit to drill straight up through bottom of the wall, if you’re able to access it from a basement. They usually have a hole in the tip to pull twine along with the head of the bit. [1] similar to https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/flex-bit-accessories/flex...

If you have high baseboards/ceiling trim, you can have drywall that ends way above the sill plates which makes it incredibly easy to route cable with the baseboards off.

There are some considerations if it's a firewall or an insulated wall, but it can be really nice.

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#93

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#94

Post by bombcar » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

sponaugle wrote: post #31

spockz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of house needs 18 AP? Was this in an existing house or an house being constructed?

It was a new house. The 18 AP locations serve a couple of different long run purposes and reasons: The first is to have direct nearly-line of sight locations for the majority of the house which is primarily to support higher frequency(60GHz) and beyond which have poor wall penetration. The second is to provide good wifi coverage due to signal attenuation from the construction techniques. I did many of the walls in do…

10k sq ft as "somewhat large" ha! ;)

With 18 APs are you using campus wifi style things, or just a bunch with the same SID?

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#95

Post by ilyt » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

jbverschoor wrote: post #83

runjake wrote: post #5

This article is great overall, but there is some stuff you should do differently, if you're wanting to follow in the author's footsteps: 1. Just use UPC connectors everywhere unless you have really good reasons not to. 2. Use single mode fiber (SMF) everywhere, including internal wiring. SMF is infinitely scalable for future needs, multimode (MMF) is not. These days the cost differences for cabling and optics is negl…

What about bi-directional vs running two fibers? Will this increase latency, even if negligible?

It will increase cost and you need to remember which side uses which module. Bi-directional just uses different wavelength in each direction.

Generally not worth it unless you have existent infrastructure and want some more density

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#96

Post by bombcar » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #55

> My ISP plans on proving 100gbits in about 2 years so I don’t need pull new fiber if I decide to upgrade. Jesus. Meanwhile, here in Germany, right in the center of Munich the best I can get is 100/40, because while there is FTTB buildout, the last 20m in the building go through the telephone wiring from the late 80s.

If you really want it, and are willing to pay, you can often negotiate with the building owner to get the last 20m run (up to and including conduit hidden on the outside of the building, etc).

If enough people in the building care, it might even be relatively cheap.

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#97

Post by Salgat » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

spaceywilly wrote: post #57

Salgat wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 1gbps fiber and it's extremely rare for me to come across a server that supports anything close to that bandwidth. At 10gbps you're able to upload 500GB/hour. For home use this seems extremely unlikely, even if you're using this as part of your job. Even my 4K surveillence cameras only require 20mbps each, that's 50 4k cameras to saturate a 1gbps line.

Have to think about the future though when you’re dealing with running stuff in walls. Think about what would’ve been acceptable throughput 10 years ago. If you built your home network around that, you’d probably be kicking yourself today.

Even CAT5e supports 10gbps in your typical house (you'll want CAT6 for longer distances though), and 10gbps is likely future proof for the next 25 years (which is crazy because CAT5e came out in 1999).

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#98

Post by jagrsw » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #37

runjake wrote: post #5

This article is great overall, but there is some stuff you should do differently, if you're wanting to follow in the author's footsteps: 1. Just use UPC connectors everywhere unless you have really good reasons not to. 2. Use single mode fiber (SMF) everywhere, including internal wiring. SMF is infinitely scalable for future needs, multimode (MMF) is not. These days the cost differences for cabling and optics is negl…

I had a hard time finding UPC wall outlets since most that are available in the Swiss format are for FTTH use, so they all have APC LC connectors on them. The keystone versions are available as UPC but they lack any fiber routing in the back.

I use the Feller one - https://www.feller.ch/de/Produktangebot/Kommunikations-und-N... - and it's indeed LC/APC.

My setup is much simpler - I get 25Gbit/s from init7 to Mikrotik CCR2004 https://mikrotik.com/product/ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs and then distribute it to 2x1Gbit access points, and use the other SFP28 port to power my PC (in another room) via the Intel E810 card.

I use the Feller fiber extension cable (20m) and bought some cable puller to pull the fiber via the plastic piping, and then finished it with the Feller outlet. Looks rather clean :) Photo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWhHwD0WAAIb3Dt?format=jpg&name=...

PS: ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs is barely coping with 25Gb/s routing. It can do it, but for multiple TCP sessions, a single one chokes the router at something like 20Gbps (down), 15 Gbps (up).

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#99

Post by quickthrowman » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

pooper wrote: post #42

mr_sturd wrote: post #23

I always end up green with envy that people seem to have pre-existing conduits in their walls for running new cables. There's no way, in my old house, of doing this without some invasive smashing in to walls.

> I always end up green with envy that people seem to have pre-existing conduits in their walls for running new cables. There's no way, in my old house, of doing this without some invasive smashing in to walls. I don't own a house and have never owned a house. This will probably sound stupid and I am sorry if this is something obvious. Is it that my spouse will leave me or my parents will disown me if I run a conduit…

3/8” flex isn’t surface raceway, it’s used for connecting a rigid (EMT/IMC/RMC) conduit system to a vibrating piece of equipment like a motor or transformer, among other things.

Wiremold 500 surface raceway is what I would recommend, it’s a basic surface raceway for electrical conductors or cables: https://www.legrand.us/wire-and-cable-management/raceway-and...

There are probably residential raceways that blend in better, but I’m not familiar with residential construction.

There are plenty of ways to get a cable from point A to point B inside of a wall, particularly if you have a single story home with an unfinished attic and basement. A spade drill bit, a fish tape, and a multitool/rotozip can get a cable pretty much anywhere if you can drill a hole into the wall cavity from above or below.

Re: Wiring my home with fiber

#100

Post by PragmaticPulp » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #66

mr_sturd wrote: post #23

I always end up green with envy that people seem to have pre-existing conduits in their walls for running new cables. There's no way, in my old house, of doing this without some invasive smashing in to walls.

I'm currently in the process of literally tearing down walls in my old house (built in the 40's). I used to fear smashing into walls. Once you do a bit of drywall and mud yourself, you realize it isn't that big of a deal. Everything I've learned has been off YT videos and there are some excellent channels with all of the professional tips and tricks. It isn't rocket science by a long shot.

I’ve done a lot of drywall work and I still avoid it whenever possible.

Doing basic drywall and paint isn’t rocket science, but getting a professional level fit and finish actually takes a lot of practice and experience. It’s also a completely different experience when you’re trying to match old specialty paints from a previous homeowner, blending repairs to match the wall texture, and other complexities that don’t show up in those basic YT videos. If you’re in a situation with untextured walls, known paint colors, simple repairs, and a forgiving eye, then it’s really not bad, but the complexities can add up quickly.

Even in the best cases, cutting into drywall all across the house to pull wire would be a project I’d try to avoid at all costs in an occupied home. The fast path still requires multiple days to go through all of the drying and re-application cycles to build up all the right layers, not to mention dust control to keep that fine dust out of everything you own.