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Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

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Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#11

Post by Tronno »

jeffrallen wrote: post #4

For a nice background on the physics of hydrogen as a transport fuel, see a recent episode of the Fully Charged podcast. Tldr: it's very much not a good fuel, in several dimensions.

OP probably means this episode: https://pca.st/episode/7bd3ca34-cbde-4ebf-94aa-23083172efde

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#12

Post by kazinator »

valine wrote: post #6

The problem with hydrogen is the lack of infrastructure. EVs have suffered from the same problem too but are arguably over the hump. Starting from zero again with range anxiety and no fueling stations sounds exhausting.

Who needs infrastructure when you can drive 2000 km to the next gas station? :)

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#14

Post by geijoenr »

Some time ago I saw a presentation from the chaos computer club where an expert on the matter explained there is a lot of misunderstandings about hydrogen technology as an energy source and how is gonna useful for society and why it is necessary.

In a nutshell some industries that currently rely on natural gas cannot switch effectively to electricity, hydrogen seems to be the only solution at the moment.

Regarding transportation, it seems to be widely accepted that hydrogen is not an efficient solution for small vehicles. There may be some cases where it makes sense (heavy trucks, train locomotives), but overall it doesn't seem like anybody expects hydrogen cars to be mass produced.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#16

Post by chroma »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #3

Hydrogen is very appealing, but the lack of a distribution system makes it highly unlikely. It's hard to see Toyota and Honda continuing to make hydrogen cars much longer. Maybe for trucks?

I think it'll fizzle out. Hydrogen has too many disadvantages. Storage is difficult. Hydrogen will diffuse through most materials. Hydrogen can't be sensed by people, so you need special sensors throughout the vehicle and any filling stations. It burns with an almost invisible flame, and it burns in a very wide range of air/fuel mixtures. It's far more flammable than gasoline. You have to build out completely new infrastructure (unlike EVs that only require improving the capacity of our existing electrical grid). Oh, and hydrogen is expensive, and that's if you make it from natural gas (which creates CO2). If you want to use electrolysis of water, the price goes way up. At that point you're using hydrogen as an extremely inefficient battery that can't be charged with the existing power grid.

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#17

Post by vletal »

geijoenr wrote: post #14

Some time ago I saw a presentation from the chaos computer club where an expert on the matter explained there is a lot of misunderstandings about hydrogen technology as an energy source and how is gonna useful for society and why it is necessary. In a nutshell some industries that currently rely on natural gas cannot switch effectively to electricity, hydrogen seems to be the only solution at the moment. Regarding tr…

What is there problem with small vehicles?

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#19

Post by jonwest »

geijoenr wrote: post #14

Some time ago I saw a presentation from the chaos computer club where an expert on the matter explained there is a lot of misunderstandings about hydrogen technology as an energy source and how is gonna useful for society and why it is necessary. In a nutshell some industries that currently rely on natural gas cannot switch effectively to electricity, hydrogen seems to be the only solution at the moment. Regarding tr…

What about using hydrogen as a generator for an EV like in the Hyundai 74 concept? I’m far from an expert but something like that, at least intuitively, feels like a nice compromise with having portability of fuel, but still allowing for alternative power sources via electricity (like if grid power was sourced via solar, hydro, wind, etc).

Re: Volkswagen develops hydrogen car that can travel 2k kilometers on one tank

#20

Post by rndgermandude »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #3

Hydrogen is very appealing, but the lack of a distribution system makes it highly unlikely. It's hard to see Toyota and Honda continuing to make hydrogen cars much longer. Maybe for trucks?

Distribution can be figured out, same as it was for fossil fuels and as it was/will be for electric energy. It would be a chicken and egg problem, for sure, however hydrogen has some big pros over electric, in that you can fuel up quite rapidly and get longer ranges, and doesn't have the harmful emissions of fossil fuel (how to produce the hydrogen in the first place is another issue, but the same is true for EV "fuel"). So I can see there could be a market for it as well as political will, if they can figure out the production side at a competitive price point. However, that's a big if.

I can see it entering special markets first, like long haul trucking, and become more widespread from that. Time will tell if that actually will happen.

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