Live data from Hacker News

The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

twitter.com

491–500 of 505 posts

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#491
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 'mis-gendering' in this case was absolutely truthful in a scientific sense, Except: A) Gender != biological sex. B) Even biological sex has a lot more shades of grey C) Even if the Bee were referring to biological sex, it would be Male/Female of the year, not Man/Woman. D) It's the Bee. Everyone knows the intent.

> A) Gender != biological sex. What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? > B) Even biological sex has a lot more shades of grey Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. C) Even if the Bee were referring to biological sex, it would be Male/Female of the year, not Man/Woman. A man is defined as an adult male. > D) It's the Bee. Everyone kno…

> What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex?

Biological sex is unrelated to the topic at hand, unless of course they were working on some genetics homework, or working on a eugenics project I suppose.

> Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous.

Is it - where do you draw the line? If it's production of gametes, what if she doesn't? If it's hormonal balance, she's now biologicaly female. If it's presence/absence of a penis/vagina, she could have either. If it's X/Y chromosomes, she could be XY, XXY, XX[0], or chimeric.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome

More importantly, in what way does her biological sex impact her public influence? I certainly hope her chromosomes or genetalia have little to no impact on her public life.

> A man is defined as an adult male.

From Trans Man in Webster: Definition of trans man

: a transgender man : a man who was identified as female at birth

Making it acceptable per webster to use singular man/woman for a trans individual.

> Yes, the intent of satire is to make fun of absurd situations.

That's The Onion. The Bee is propaganda wrapped up in "it's just a joke bro". The Onion punches both ways, the Bee doesn't.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#492
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A) Gender != biological sex. What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? > B) Even biological sex has a lot more shades of grey Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. C) Even if the Bee were referring to biological sex, it would be Male/Female of the year, not Man/Woman. A man is defined as an adult male. > D) It's the Bee. Everyone kno…

> What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? Biological sex is unrelated to the topic at hand, unless of course they were working on some genetics homework, or working on a eugenics project I suppose. > Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. Is it - where do you draw the line? If it's production of gametes, what if she doesn't? If it's h…

Satire only counts if you make fun of both sides? Is Stephen Colbert a propagandist too?

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#493
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that trans individuals have been part of the LGBT movement feom the beginning, even back before AIDS when it was the GLBT movement, right?

I didn't say anything about your so-called 'LGBT movement'. I talked about 'the struggles that same sex attracted people have faced', struggles that span millennia and cultures. Your so-called 'LGBT movement' is highly western culture oriented (particularly US American / New York culture, see the other commenter's reference to Stonewall), historically recent and ideologically constructed. That is very different to my…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

Trans people have spanned history, and much like people who experience same-sex attraction have experienced a variety of acceptance and rejection based on the culture at the time.

In what way is this piggy backing? In addition, as far as western contexts pre-GLBT, both transgender and same sex attracted people have been related since pre-nazi Germany and both were persecuted by the Nazis (to be clear, this is not an invitation to invoke Godwin's Law, nor me comparing you to a Nazi. It's just an example of a case where gay and trans individuals have been joined together).

E: Fixed spelling and expanded second paragraph.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? Biological sex is unrelated to the topic at hand, unless of course they were working on some genetics homework, or working on a eugenics project I suppose. > Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. Is it - where do you draw the line? If it's production of gametes, what if she doesn't? If it's h…

Satire only counts if you make fun of both sides? Is Stephen Colbert a propagandist too?

From the guidelines:

> Throwaway accounts are ok for sensitive information, but please don't create accounts routinely. HN is a community—users should have an identity that others can relate to.

I'm on main and will be willing to continue this discussion when you or someone else comes back with yours/theirs.

E: And if you or someone else _isn't_ willing to come back and attache their name to that statement, I guess you understand the point.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#495
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A) Gender != biological sex. What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? > B) Even biological sex has a lot more shades of grey Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. C) Even if the Bee were referring to biological sex, it would be Male/Female of the year, not Man/Woman. A man is defined as an adult male. > D) It's the Bee. Everyone kno…

Language is moving towards a disambiguation between male (as a kerotype or body plan) and man (as a social concept of what it is to be 'manly' in that society.) This evolution of language has been very rapid in some circles, and slow in others, but everyone uses it to some degree. For example, when people say, "Be a man!" Or "man up!", they aren't saying, "show your adult male body". They are saying, "meet our standa…

> Language is moving towards a disambiguation between male (as a kerotype or body plan) and man (as a social concept of what it is to be 'manly' in that society.)

No, some people are artificially trying to create this distinction. In normal speech, “man” and “male” are pretty much interchangeable.

> For example, when people say, "Be a man!" Or "man up!", they aren't saying, "show your adult male body".

They're saying “show properties that are traditionally associated with males”. These stereotypes have to place in modern society and I find it appalling that the people who claim to want equality are continuing to perpetuate them.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#496
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A) Gender != biological sex. What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? > B) Even biological sex has a lot more shades of grey Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. C) Even if the Bee were referring to biological sex, it would be Male/Female of the year, not Man/Woman. A man is defined as an adult male. > D) It's the Bee. Everyone kno…

> What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? Biological sex is unrelated to the topic at hand, unless of course they were working on some genetics homework, or working on a eugenics project I suppose. > Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. Is it - where do you draw the line? If it's production of gametes, what if she doesn't? If it's h…

> Biological sex is unrelated to the topic at hand

So is hormonal balance or whatever you use for defining gender. Why do we care about gender at all?

> Is it - where do you draw the line?

When a person's body has all typical characteristics of a specific sex, then it's unambiguously that sex. Otherwise, they can rightfully identify as intersex, but that has nothing to do with transgenderism, where the body is unambiguous and only the mind seems to differ (and that's only considering people with gender dysphoria, aka “truscum”, and not those that are doing it for other reasons).

> From Trans Man in Webster: Definition of trans man

: a transgender man : a man who was identified as female at birth

If politically motivated people create a dictionary entry, then it agrees with them. What a surprise.

The word “assigned” is nonsense. The doctor doesn't flip a coin to determine the sex. The sex is observed.

> The Onion punches both ways, the Bee doesn't.

The Bee makes fun of conservatives too quite often.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#497
post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you thing they weren't talking about biological sex? Biological sex is unrelated to the topic at hand, unless of course they were working on some genetics homework, or working on a eugenics project I suppose. > Which are not applicable in this case, since the sex of the individial in question is inambiguous. Is it - where do you draw the line? If it's production of gametes, what if she doesn't? If it's h…

> Biological sex is unrelated to the topic at hand So is hormonal balance or whatever you use for defining gender. Why do we care about gender at all? > Is it - where do you draw the line? When a person's body has all typical characteristics of a specific sex, then it's unambiguously that sex. Otherwise, they can rightfully identify as intersex, but that has nothing to do with transgenderism, where the body is unambi…

> So is hormonal balance or whatever you use for defining gender. Why do we care about gender at all?

Gender is defined by the person who is experiencing it. More specifically, gender is clearly biological to an extent (source: every trans person, as well as Reimer who was discussed elsewhere in the thread), but tends to represent itself with various social norms for a given gender (see: Various trans and third gender people across history, who align with gender roles not matching their birth sex).

Gender is relevant here due to that second section - it impacts how one sees and interacts with the world.

> When a person's body has all typical characteristics of a specific sex, then it's unambiguously that sex. Otherwise, they can rightfully identify as intersex, but that has nothing to do with transgenderism, where the body is unambiguous and only the mind seems to differ

The point is that far more people could be defined as 'intersex' then are, and many people who could have any of the conditions I listed above and not realize it. As there is no biological definition that doesn't need an exception to match many people who would be traditionally considered male or female, trying to argue this point is meaningless.

A simple Male/Female model is Good Enough for most peoples understanding, but is fundamentally flawed.

> If politically motivated people create a dictionary entry, then it agrees with them. What a surprise.

This argument can be used to dismiss anything, and thus cannot prove anything. Do you have other examples of political motivation here, or is it just that it is political because it disagrees?

> The word “assigned” is nonsense. The doctor doesn't flip a coin to determine the sex. The sex is observed.

Sex is observed, and gender is assigned based on sex. Usually, this matches up just fine. Sometimes, it doesn't.

> (and that's only considering people with gender dysphoria, aka “truscum”, and not those that are doing it for other reasons).

Truscum != people who have gender dysphoria. Truscum == Trans people who believe that you require gender dysphoria to be trans _and_ try to prevent other trans people from seeking treatment based on that belief.

> The Bee makes fun of conservatives too quite often.

Of eight articles on their landing page, four articles clearly attack the left from the headline, one could ambiguously attack either, but becomes clearly about the left in two paragraphs, One appears to be about the Bee itself - but actually is anti-left, and two appear to be benign "haha people funny[0]".

[0] "Batman In Hospital After Gotham Thugs Realize They Can Attack All At Once Instead Of Just One At A Time" was subscriber only, but "Man Celebrates 40th Birthday With Finely-Aged, Single Malt Bottle Of Advil " made me actually laugh.

E: Trimmed bad copy at the bottom and some spelling errors/phrasing.

E2: Should note, the description of the Bee's articles is accurate as of time of writing and time of this edit. Presumably this will change eventually.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#498
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "the Earth is round" is hateful from the perspective of flat earthers. Would you apply the same logic equally and make it an offense to satirize this particular belief? Or to bring it full circle, I doubt the Bee would petition to get someone banned for satirizing "God" or saying "God is not real". If they did, we would call it out too.

Yes, obviously Twitter got to decide which hateful statements were prohibited and which were not.

You can trust Twitter and activists to make those decisions all you like. But don't expect people to stand by and accept that as an acceptable solution to societies problems.

Because you're making these zero-transparency and zero-due process systems fill this role. Which is naive and idealistic in the worst ways.

I would probably believe in these exact things when I was an ill-formed and very socially concerned 16 year old, but I can't honestly take that position today. The only people I see taking this position are people willing to gamble for today for short term gains of their pet ideologies while ignoring long term harm.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slurs are made by context, tone, and perception by the target. I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. Furthermore the overwhelming majority of the roughly two billion English speakers around the world who aren't trans do not self-describe as "cis". It's a slur.

> I have never been called "cis" except by people with antagonistic tones trying to get a rise out of me. I can tell you from personal experience that this says more about you than the word. The majority of people in my circle would self describe as cis, and most people I interact with would self identify as cis if the meaning was explained to them.

> I can tell you from personal experience that this says more about you than the word.

Backhanded insults like this won't convince me that I'm wrong. On the contrary, it shows me that you do intend to insult and that the word is in fact a slur.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#500

Babylon Bee seems pretty harmless. I find right wing humor to be fairly low-IQ, but they should be able to joke about trans women without getting banned. I'm a recovering alcoholic and bipolar, so I have to put up with jokes about drunks and manic street preachers. Why should trans get a pass? Heck, I even tell jokes about drunks and manic street preachers myself.

A closest analogy would be the Babylon Bee making a joke about how you are not bipolar, it's all just in your head, or a satire about researchers trying to cure bipolar disorder instead of cancer, a real disease, and those would be fine, but then they would insist that it is true, your bipolar disorder is made up, and the CEO of Babylon Bee would go on Tucker Carlson's show and they would laugh about you being a whin…

Yes I feel that because there are people close to me who think I manipulated the psychiatrist to get the diagnosis to excuse my behavior. They feel I am smart enough to do that. They can't experience what it is like to be me so they can't know and I excuse them for that. I use Jesus' phrase "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing" to get through it.
Post reply on HN