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FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

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Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#21

Post by ldoughty »

ROTMetro wrote: post #11

If you or I lie to the court, it is perjury. When it is the FBI, who are granted an additional level of professional authority and trust in their testimony 'because reasons' (even though no testimony should automatically be elevated over other) it's just harmless 'errors made in statements by FBI examiners' as phrased in this article. Having gone through the system, it's all lies. Let's start with plea agreements. Yo…

Firstly, I'm sorry you went through the system and had to face these kinds of issues.

I generally agree with you. The fact some of these citizens people were likely incorrectly executed, and others died in prison, based on bad science makes this depressing to read.

However, I would factor in intent and knowledge on the part of lab workers and experts when demanding penalties for their action.

If they intentionally lied to support a case, 100% they should have a sentence at least equal to and preferably greater than the person they are essentially framing. However, if they are just using equipment as trained, reading results as trained, and had no I'll intent? I don't think it makes the world better to throw them in jail.

Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#22

Post by brnaftr361 »

ROTMetro wrote: post #11

If you or I lie to the court, it is perjury. When it is the FBI, who are granted an additional level of professional authority and trust in their testimony 'because reasons' (even though no testimony should automatically be elevated over other) it's just harmless 'errors made in statements by FBI examiners' as phrased in this article. Having gone through the system, it's all lies. Let's start with plea agreements. Yo…

Any recommended reading?

Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#23

Post by hedora »

So, if this is used in a trial where I am on the jury, I'll assume it implies a 90% chance the evidence says the defendant is innocent, plus a 5 to 9.9% chance of a false positive with the underlying test.

Got it. Moving on.

Edit: I was being snarky but, on reflection, if they are falling back on hair analysis, it implies they have a piece of the guilty party's hair and the defendant's hair, but are not willing to present the results of a $1000 genotyping test.

A 99% probability of innocence is probably about right in that part of the criminal prosecution decision tree.

Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#24

Post by ok_dad »

ROTMetro wrote: post #11

If you or I lie to the court, it is perjury. When it is the FBI, who are granted an additional level of professional authority and trust in their testimony 'because reasons' (even though no testimony should automatically be elevated over other) it's just harmless 'errors made in statements by FBI examiners' as phrased in this article. Having gone through the system, it's all lies. Let's start with plea agreements. Yo…

Man, that’s fucking shitty. I hate how CSI and Law and Order have trained the general population to trust this stuff so much. The culture around criminal justice in America needs to be reset completely. It’s clearly still poisoned by the prejudices and power structures from a few hundred years ago.

Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#25

Post by arcticfox »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #10

It doesn't seem that they will take action to prevent failures of a similar general kind occurring again. There should be legislation regarding the quality of forensic analysis of all kinds.

It feels like there need to be defamation lawsuits that ruin anyone that practice these

Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#26

Post by kjeetgill »

> The DOJ, FBI, Innocence Project, and NACDL (National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers) have been working jointly on this review and share the same goal of ensuring the integrity of the American justice system in all respects. All of the parties are committed to addressing this situation properly and will continue to work together in a collaborative and professional manner.

This is the only thing keeping the cynicism at bay for me when I read stories like this. It's horrifying to think of how many people might be falsely imprisoned.

Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#28

Post by beebeepka »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #12
woodruffw wrote: post #5

Ridiculous. So much of law enforcement and forensic "science" is just pretext or pseudoscientific supportive structure for good old gut feelings.

Or prejudices.

Is there a difference? I am also guilty of this and suspect most of us are

Tinfoil on: maybe that's why they were pushing this CSI bullcrap for as long as they did.

Re: FBI testimony on hair analysis contained errors in 90% of cases (2015)

#30

Post by adhesive_wombat »

brnaftr361 wrote: post #22
ROTMetro wrote: post #11

If you or I lie to the court, it is perjury. When it is the FBI, who are granted an additional level of professional authority and trust in their testimony 'because reasons' (even though no testimony should automatically be elevated over other) it's just harmless 'errors made in statements by FBI examiners' as phrased in this article. Having gone through the system, it's all lies. Let's start with plea agreements. Yo…

Any recommended reading?

Black Box Thinking has a few examples of law enforcement doubling down on obviously wrong conclusions when presented with new exculpatory evidence.
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