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Welcome to Hell, Elon

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Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#291

Post by [deleted] »

CodeSgt wrote: post #256
kaba0 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the problem is that you are searching on fox news of all things. EDIT: To make my comment a bit less argumentative, here is a good chart on the biases of media outlets: https://my.lwv.org/california/torrance-area/article/how-reli... , scroll down to adfontes.

As much as I dislike fox news (and virtually all news orgs now) they're probably among the only people actually tracking things like this. I understand if you dislike their political message, but the links the other commenter provided are all good examples of specific instances of the censorship we're discussing. That the organization as a whole is incredibly biased doesn't alter the fact that the people in those sto…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#293

Post by 93po »

SilverBirch wrote: post #279
93po wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk has failed to ever engage in the detail of how to address these issues Do you mean engage publicly, or engage even privately within his own teams?

Both, even within what we learned about through the chancery discovery and the leaks (lots of information leaked about what Musk presented to the bankers and investors as the business plan which is where the 75% cut number came from)

Can you tell me more about his private teams and their interactions with Elon? How often have they been reaching out to Elon, what do those communications look like, and what does it look like when Elon declines to provide them that information?

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#294

Post by mikkergp »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #175
minimaxir wrote: post #96

The key quote which other comments are overlooking: > Here are some examples: you can write as many polite letters to advertisers as you want, but you cannot reasonably expect to collect any meaningful advertising revenue if you do not promise those advertisers “brand safety.” That means you have to ban racism, sexism, transphobia, and all kinds of other speech that is totally legal in the United States but reveals p…

To play the devil's advocate: So why haven't advertisers abandoned Fox News? As long as Musk limits his newly acquired toy to being no worse than Fox News (which is plenty bad!), he can still keep advertising dollars coming in.

So yeah actually, I was thinking about this but advertisers have abandoned Fox News in droves. They have a relatively narrow advertising block it's mostly middle of the road car and insurance companies and other big brands with big money who don't mind focusing on that particular segment. (Don't get me wrong it is a lot of companies, but I don't think twitter has the grab to be this picky yet)

I suspect part of the problem with Twitter is that then you probably are ending up trying to build a conservative social network, and I suspect there isn't a big enough market for a conservative social network, at least as big as the one that Twitter wants to be. Maybe as time goes on and more conservatives end up younger.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#295

Post by tekstar »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #280
joshstrange wrote: post #34

Can't wait to see that hot takes from the free speech absolutists who have never experienced that first-hand on a platform they frequent regularly. We already know what that looks like, it's 4chan/8kun/etc and surprise, it's absolute shit.

4chan is a forum. Everyone who browses a 4chan board sees the same posts. For that reason, these boards are moderated, but apparently not heavily enough for the tastes of some people, to whom for 4chan is the epitome of horror. Twitter is a platform. Everyone who uses twitter decides who to follow and who to block. Everyone sees different tweets. Twitter for a long time had almost complete freedom of speech. It descr…

This is simply not true, because Twitter algorithmically pushes content you did not subscribe to in order to drive engagement. You do not have control over what you see, and are subject to the controversial subject of the day regardless of who you follow.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#296

Post by inawarminister »

nemo44x wrote: post #46

I'm betting that something like the Google Circles gets implemented but at a higher level. In order to engage with certain people you have to be a member of certain groups/circles or not a member of certain circles/groups. These groups would be moderated by the people that run them. So instead of having Twitter pick and choose who is allowed on the platform, you crowdsource it to the people who want to moderate their…

Sounds like Mastodon/Fediverse blocking of entire instances, which is workable. Kind of fun to see Elon's Twitter taking and implementing ideas from the Fediverse to be honest.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#297

Post by Schroedingersat »

ilyt wrote: post #207
Schroedingersat wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't until I moderated a community myself that it finally clicked. The key is that each community needs to moderate itself. The second you give one entity centralised or external control over moderation it can be used for terrible things. I can't think of any solution for the toxic communities other than to cut themoff and let them fester. The youtube/facebook/etc strategy of 'all engagement is good, show them…

> I can't think of any solution for the toxic communities other than to cut themoff and let them fester. The youtube/facebook/etc strategy of 'all engagement is good, show them more' is incredibly harmful. It's entirely fine. The problem YT/Facebook have is user's lack of control on what gets recommended. Play the "wrong" video once or twice and you will be flooded by stuff you don't want. The fact someone somewhere…

> It's entirely fine. The problem YT/Facebook have is user's lack of control on what gets recommended. Play the "wrong" video once or twice and you will be flooded by stuff you don't want.

This is the same problem I was describing...

Users have no control over what they see, and open communities have little control over where the bar for who should be banned is or what other communities they are in contact with.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#298

Post by 18pfsmt »

This is quite a ridiculous blog post. Hyperbole is way too common these days, and this is the type of submission that drove away many of the smartest HN users.

I will always remember when I first learned about bitcoin here in 2010 when the white paper was linked.

Now we have shrieking missives warning about mean people writing stuff on the internet.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#299

Post by awb »

muaytimbo wrote: post #282
awb wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Look at pretty much any reality TV show, or the magazines at any checkout line. Nonsense and drama is big business from an attention and advertising standpoint. Plus, you can look at most biased news sources and see the drama that they selectively cover under the guise of news. "1 person did a bad thing" and "here's another reason why this entire group is conspiring against you" are not uncommon tropes.

My reference to distasteful was meant to reference a much more vile flavor of speech than gossip and celeb junk news.

Fair enough, but that’s also why it’s so hard to define your content moderation policy, because the definition of “distasteful”, etc. varies between people and over time.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#300

Post by wdr1 »

joshstrange wrote: post #34

Can't wait to see that hot takes from the free speech absolutists who have never experienced that first-hand on a platform they frequent regularly. We already know what that looks like, it's 4chan/8kun/etc and surprise, it's absolute shit.

Usenet?
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