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I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

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Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#381

Post by VBprogrammer »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #328
VBprogrammer wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus. Please no one take that as legal advice. Paying a bribe to get preferential treatment (even if that treatment is just to get the person to do their actual job) is a bribe none the less.

Paying an official to perform their job (perform a "routine governmental action") is a facilitating payment and is an exemption from the prohibitions of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/78dd-1 The point with a facilitating payment is that you've done everything that's actually required by law to e.g. get a business license and the official is still giving you the run-aroun…

That's interesting. In the UK these would also be considered bribes. From a quick search the US and Australia are the the only countries with this principle.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#382

Post by bluGill »

cafard wrote: post #267
soperj wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have sent experts to the relevant tax offices etc, but the ONLY guy who can handle it is never there, refuses to deal with it, then says we need to go somewhere else - where we are sent back etc etc. Sent around in circles, basically - with everybody recognizing the money is in fact owed... That sounds exactly like they're needing a bribe, but you're too rooted in western ways of doing things that you don't real…

US citizens bribing foreign officials can be convicted of a felony under (I think it is) The Foreign Corrupt Practices act. Whether DOJ chases down three-developer scale stuff, or has only the staff for multi-zillion class bribes, I don't know.

not just the us. most of europe has similar laws.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#383

Post by bluGill »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #321
MikePlacid wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's actually kind of disturbing how there are basically only a handful of countries on the planet without systematic corruption. Maybe there are none. Perhaps it's a human trait. More disturbing (to me) is how easy it is to eliminate corruption in any given area - without any brutality or anything else extraordinary. Just setup the process correctly, incentivize workforce - and the same people who were building ro…

>2. The clerk will be fired if he asked - not just for any unnecessary documents, but just for asking any legally unnecessary question. >3. The clerk will be also fired if he accepts a registration that does not confirm to federal guidelines. Fired by whom? Who is in charge of checking this? How do you ensure that the clerk isn't just accepting false businesses and giving a percentage to whoever's above? On its face…

you can audit a small number and know. sure the clerk can risk one, but statistically they are caught with enough.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#384

Post by MichaelCollins »

ridgered4 wrote: post #368
MichaelCollins wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are paying them to do something they're supposed to do but refuse to do in a timely manner, that may be legal. It's called a facilitating payment or grease payment, and is an exception to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Ask a real lawyer, obviously.

Yeah, I remember this from my compliance training because it was so ridiculous. It is just a type of bribe, but since it has a special name and a carve out it is potentially not a problem!

I think it's a distinction that matters, morally. A regular bribe is paying an official to do something the law says the official shouldn't do. Whereas grease money is essentially paying the official to follow the law and do their job properly. The latter rewards the official for their show of tactical incompetence, but at least it isn't paying them to break the law on your behalf. More like it's paying them to stop breaking the law.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#385

Post by Mizza »

pelorat wrote: post #234
franciscop wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a funny story from Spain: My father's has an orange field, so at some point he wanted to dig a well to get some water. He went to the City Hall, got all the tricky paperwork and applied for permission to build it. Months passed by without hearing anything, and at some point he just forgot about it, assuming he'd be denied silently. There's some people in the city hall don't like him too much BTW. Few years lat…

A friend of mine in Spain bought a masia, but was not allowed to tear down the old building to build a new house (protected heritage or something, even though it was junk). So the way around it was to do it in steps. Replace it whole building part by part. So now he has a new house (but it looks like the old one in shape), but there's nothing left of the original.

Seen this a lot in Philadelphia lately. Part of one outer wall remains standing, everything else is totally destroyed and built new around it. Creates some interesting looking collage-buildings.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#386

Post by eldaisfish »

karterk wrote: post #137
klausjensen wrote: post #109

~5 years ago, I hired three Indian developers. They asked me if we could set up an Indian legal entity, so that they could just get regular salaries in India with tax payments, deductions etc taken care of. I agreed and we got it done. One of the worst business-decisions of my life. The amount of red tape, stupid rules, corruption, signatures, stamps, showing up physically in a certain office etc etc... Mindblowing.…

Back when GST was introduced, they asked all exporters of software services to pay the 18% GST and then claim a refund because exports are exempted. This was before they introduced a process to apply for a "NOC" (which must be renewed periodically I think). So, I duly paid GST for the first couple of months. 5 years later, I'm yet to receive the refunds. First, they said that they were authorized to only sanction ref…

My family’s liquor shop was forced to close because our accountants could not keep up with the constant GST changes. They quit and we could not find another on short notice. The worst part was that the shop was on the hook for the unpaid taxes of upstream suppliers - money that is yet to be fully refunded after years.

India’s legal systems and the enforcement of laws are one of the biggest drags on a country with immense potential.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#387

Post by TremendousJudge »

bluGill wrote: post #383
TremendousJudge wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2. The clerk will be fired if he asked - not just for any unnecessary documents, but just for asking any legally unnecessary question. >3. The clerk will be also fired if he accepts a registration that does not confirm to federal guidelines. Fired by whom? Who is in charge of checking this? How do you ensure that the clerk isn't just accepting false businesses and giving a percentage to whoever's above? On its face…

you can audit a small number and know. sure the clerk can risk one, but statistically they are caught with enough.

By "you" you mean a regular Russian citizen? Who is in charge of the clerks under this system, and what ensures that they aren't as corrupt as before?

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#388

Post by stefan_ »

renewiltord wrote: post #343
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying an official to perform their job (perform a "routine governmental action") is a facilitating payment and is an exemption from the prohibitions of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/78dd-1 The point with a facilitating payment is that you've done everything that's actually required by law to e.g. get a business license and the official is still giving you the run-aroun…

Yeah, dude doesn't deserve getting downvoted as hard as he is. Neither the "You'll get killed by FCPA" nor the "FCPA lets you do this" comments are legal advice. But what you're saying is, in fact, true. It allows US companies to continue to be competitive in places where this stuff is expected.

It's an obvious exemption in FCPA that would be surprising to the majority of people, hence why I posted the gist of it. That earns you a "Jesus" by clueless people on HN these days.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#389

Post by [deleted] »

ninju wrote: post #282
stefan_ wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying an official to do something they were going to do (eventually) anyway does not qualify as a bribe.

citation please :-) To me...if I have to pay someone to do their assigned job it seems like a bribe to me https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bribe (using money to affect the conduct of a person)

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