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The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#351

Post by MichaelCollins »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #264
mikkergp wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is in a weird position though that he can't come back to Twitter without sabotaging any value or investment he put into Truth Social since just about the only value in Truth Social is that Trump is on it.

It won’t be the first time he sank an investment. Truth be told (hah), truth social has little to no value as the main demographic is generally very poor with little disposable income, and the main content is just propaganda and dog whistling.

I think the real value in owning a social media company or newspaper is in the influence, not advertising revenue. If it turns a profit, then all the better, but I don't think that's what motivates rich people to own media.

In other words, the propaganda and dog whistling is the whole point.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#352

Post by thedorkknight »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #247
bakugo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely untrue, but the difference is that here, if someone posts "I really hate [group of people] and I wish they'd die" it's generally considered breaking the rules, but on twitter whether or not this statement breaks the rules depends on what group of people you targeted.

HN doesn’t have the best track record on this one, with people publicly defending intentionally harmful speech and downvoting and reporting dissenting voices. Look no further than this same thread where people argue that twitter simply enforced their TOS and people get downvoted whereas others are publicly arguing that they should be able to make fun of minorities (read make shitty remarks and pass them off as jokes…

Yeah this is the thing I don't get. If you don't like the terms, then don't agree to them. If you agree to them, then you lose all right to complain when they hold you to your word in my opinion

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#353

Post by Overtonwindow »

illuminerdy wrote: post #206
electrondood wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully disagree. They publicly mocked a trans person, in clear violation of the TOS that all users agree to as a condition of use of the platform. They were then temporarily suspended, as clearly laid out in the TOS. Twitter says "Hey, if X, then Y." Babylon Bee says "Yeah, ok." Babylon Bee does X, and experiences Y. They are not victims, and there is no "violation of free speech" here.

Lots of people are publicly mocked on Twitter everyday. What makes "trans" people so special?

No post body was provided.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#354

Post by gspetr »

masukomi wrote: post #332
illuminerdy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people are publicly mocked on Twitter everyday. What makes "trans" people so special?

a simple example: people who get mocked for being bald don't typically get killed for their baldness. People who get mocked for being trans ARE FREQUENTLY killed for their transness. We don't need to protect bald people from mocking, because the consequences are minimal. We need to protect trans people from mocking because the consequences are _maximal_. trans people are an endangered (in the most literal sense) mino…

>FREQUENTLY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_bein...

I see single digits per year. Worldwide. What is your definition of frequently?

If you know of more cases with reliable sources then perhaps the article should be expanded.

While Wikipedia is of course not the most exhaustive source, it ranks quite high in Search Engines.

For many people it is frequently their sole source of information for such issues, which is why I see merit for people who know more than I do about the issue to make the necessary edits to expand the article.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#355

Post by woooooo »

socialismisok wrote: post #350
woooooo wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My beef is with taking a particular set of social norms and calling it "settled science", then going a step further and banning alternate views. I'm not even saying I have a problem with those norms, I like everyone, I just think it's an overreach.

That's fair! Science is never settled, in any field. It might be better to say something like, "the current consensus is tilting towards gender as a social construct, and sex being more complex than 'XX or XY'"?

Social norms are inherently non-scientific in their motivation.

It's an accurate observation to say that higher-income liberals tend to think this way and enforce these norms but the norms themselves are in the realm of culture and politics.

Similarly, it's accurate to say conservatives tend to think people who flout traditional gender norms matched to their genetics are weirdos. Not scientific on their part either.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#356

Post by socialismisok »

pessimizer wrote: post #215
socialismisok wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course it will. Plenty of historical events have a group setting the initial culture or laws, then a dictator comes in and changes them. If another dictator comes in later and reverses them, that second person is still a dictator. If Elon sells to, I dunno, Zizek, and sudden changes occur, of course I'd say the new leftist leaders were enforcing their personal ideology. Is it so hard to believe that someone c…

> A dictator is a dictator, and it's bad, no matter their ideology. Musk is a dictator now? Why does everybody have to be the next Hitler?

No one said he was. Not all dictators are Hitler. But they are still dictators.

My friends, engineers at Twitter, are saying they received demands they work overnight to deliver features and changes last night.

He's absolutely a dictator within Twitter.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#357

Post by socialismisok »

woooooo wrote: post #355
socialismisok wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair! Science is never settled, in any field. It might be better to say something like, "the current consensus is tilting towards gender as a social construct, and sex being more complex than 'XX or XY'"?

Social norms are inherently non-scientific in their motivation. It's an accurate observation to say that higher-income liberals tend to think this way and enforce these norms but the norms themselves are in the realm of culture and politics. Similarly, it's accurate to say conservatives tend to think people who flout traditional gender norms matched to their genetics are weirdos. Not scientific on their part either.

Social sciences aim to be descriptive, reflecting the understanding of cultures.

But also, gender is beyond just US liberal and conservative. Plenty of cultures around the world and throughout recorded history have had third genders and trans people, and they were not considered "weird". I believe sociologists are attempting to review human behavior across all spans and across cultures and compare even to animals (there are recorded instances of animals fulfilling reversed gender roles for their species).

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#358

Post by Shared404 »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #263
bwbuhse wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you purposefully misgender a cis person on Twitter, the same rule applies. Not sure what your issue is

"Cis" people dont care about being misgendered.

The prevalence of "Real men don't do $THING" would suggest you are incorrect.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#359

Post by socialismisok »

_-david-_ wrote: post #349
socialismisok wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I stay on a platform that lets people berate me? Independent of what my identity is? It's just a shitty experience.

If you think trans people shouldn't be allowed to be berated online then why not ban berating of Trump or whites? Why should their experience on Twitter be a "shitty experience"? Regardless, you didn't answer my question: "If Babylon Bee makes a joke about trans people how is that removing trans voices from the platform?" People voluntarily leaving is not removing voices.

> People voluntarily leaving is not removing voices.

This is naive. If a Klan bar doesn't literally throw out Black people, they still are preventing Black people from being there by making the environment so unpleasant they cannot remain.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#360

Post by Shared404 »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #291
bwbuhse wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you purposefully misgender a cis person on Twitter, the same rule applies. Not sure what your issue is

Regardless of dictionary definitions, when judged by the tone and context of common use, "cis" is primarily a slur which is used to de-legitimize and insult the people it is directed at. Of the people who are ostensibly "cis", exceptionally few will choose to self-describe using that word. Kindly refrain from using it.

The only people who would have cis used to "delegitimize" them would be ones who are saying something innacurate about trans people and are being told that they do not have relevant frame of reference for that comment.

Describing cis as a slur is... Wow.

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