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The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "absolutely true in the scientific sense", except at the "I have an understanding of high school level biology and sociology" sense. Sex and gender are both significantly more complex than just chromosomes, genitalia, or organs. If you are interested, I'm happy to dive into a good faith discussion of where the science actually falls.

And if you want to make that argument, fine. But when people are banning those who disagree, I will reflexively side with those banned and against the people doing the banning, whether or not I agree with them.

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#212

Babylon Bee seems pretty harmless. I find right wing humor to be fairly low-IQ, but they should be able to joke about trans women without getting banned. I'm a recovering alcoholic and bipolar, so I have to put up with jokes about drunks and manic street preachers. Why should trans get a pass? Heck, I even tell jokes about drunks and manic street preachers myself.

A closest analogy would be the Babylon Bee making a joke about how you are not bipolar, it's all just in your head, or a satire about researchers trying to cure bipolar disorder instead of cancer, a real disease, and those would be fine, but then they would insist that it is true, your bipolar disorder is made up, and the CEO of Babylon Bee would go on Tucker Carlson's show and they would laugh about you being a whiny, lazy leftist making up things because you never had a strict parent to beat some sense into you.

Feel the difference? Transgender people should be absolutely the butt of jokes, that's how you include them, but then don't go around denying, mocking and invalidating them. Without some semblance of good faith you are not a joker, but a propagandist.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#213

Great, they should have never been banned to begin with.

Transphobia is pretty clearly against twitters rules. They weren't really banned, they were locked out until they deleted their tweet. All they had to do was delete the tweet.

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#214
post #80

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I'm not sure if they felt 'attacked'- more that they were standing up for their right to do what they do (satire) without being censored and giving into the censorship by deleting the tweet. The 'mis-gendering' in this case was absolutely truthful in a scientific sense, thereby making their point that truth being somehow harmful in today's society. Whether you agree that's a 'good' point or not it seems to fall squar…

It's not "absolutely true in the scientific sense", except at the "I have an understanding of high school level biology and sociology" sense. Sex and gender are both significantly more complex than just chromosomes, genitalia, or organs. If you are interested, I'm happy to dive into a good faith discussion of where the science actually falls.

Do it.

Are there peer reviewed papers or something on Arvix that explicitly dive into the "beyond high school level of biology" where sex is not defined at the cellular level (wrt Autosomes)? I am not interested in debating the sociological version, to be perfectly honest.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#215

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> Presumably previous rules involved policy teams and moderation teams and legal teams. Presumably is doing some heavily lifting here. But either way, my point stands why isn't it "group ideology". Simply because it was made by committee doesn't change the connotation used. If someone opposed to Musk's views later takes control of twitter and restores everything to the current status quo, will that also be done using…

Yes, of course it will. Plenty of historical events have a group setting the initial culture or laws, then a dictator comes in and changes them. If another dictator comes in later and reverses them, that second person is still a dictator. If Elon sells to, I dunno, Zizek, and sudden changes occur, of course I'd say the new leftist leaders were enforcing their personal ideology. Is it so hard to believe that someone c…

> A dictator is a dictator, and it's bad, no matter their ideology.

Musk is a dictator now? Why does everybody have to be the next Hitler?

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were never banned only suspended, and there's nothing in the link to indicate that they've been un-suspended from posting. From last week proof that they weren't banned: https://web.archive.org/web/20221019005155/https://twitter.c...

They were suspended with a little Maoist struggle session setup that they were required to go through to repent their sins, and included is an admission that they were sinners for doing it, in order to get their account back. You left that very important part out.

They had to delete the tweet which awarded a specific named transwoman "man of the year award". The tweet was cruel identity-based harassment and not worthy of defense, but it for some reason seems to have radicalized a certain segment of the tech elite. In fact it may very well have been the inciting event that led to Musk's purchase of twitter.

Anyway, having to delete your harassment tweet in order to keep tweeting is not a Maoist struggle session

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#217

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I guess it depends on which side you believe is more toxic. It's strange you would take the side that limiting bigotry, racism, homophobia, and transphobia is what creates toxicity.

Except both sides say the same things in different ways. The side that limits bigotry, racism, homophobia, and transphobia (as you say)... explicitly promotes bigotry against ideas they don't hold dear (alt-right, etc), racial prejudice, glorification of transgender and homosexual values. I don't care what you practice, just don't shove it in my face and tell me to love it.

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#218

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In that link, why doesn't Wikipedia mention the subject's "Born" name, like they do with others who change their name? Natalie Portman, Teller, Elton John, just to name a few.

Because Wikipedia tends to err on the side of respecting the wishes of the subject. For a less political example, CPG Grey's page doesn't have his legal name or photo despite them being pretty easy to find. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGP_Grey

>Because Wikipedia tends to err on the side of respecting the wishes of the subject.

Unless that subject is right wing.

Wolf Blitzer:

>Wolf Isaac Blitzer (born March 22, 1948) is an American journalist, television news anchor, and author who has been a CNN reporter since 1990, and who currently serves as one of the principal anchors at the network.[1] He is the host of The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer and until 2021, served as the network's lead political anchor.

Seems fine, right?

Tucker Carlson:

>Tucker Swanson McNear Carlson[5] (born May 16, 1969) is an American television host, conservative political commentator and author who has hosted the nightly political talk show Tucker Carlson Tonight on Fox News since 2016.

But Tucker is labelled conservative.

Founder Larry Sanger: "Wikipedia is Badly Biased" https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/

And you don't have to be right wing to see this. I'm a registered Pacific Green.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#219

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I'm sure it is real, but that's not the point. A fact can be true but still be amplified far beyond its actual significance relative to other things that are also true, and that seems like what's happening here. I'm seeing a lot of people citing the exact same highly-dubious articles, which takes us further from figuring out the empirical truth on a complex set of issues. Those citations are also often accompanied by…

If you're going to call something "disinfo," that thing should at a minimum be required to be untrue.

Maybe you don't understand what disinformation is. It's not just about saying things that are factually untrue, because that's easily countered. More often it's about changing the interpretation or emphasis to promote a preferred narrative and/or create an illusion of popular support. Other times the goal is just to sow confusion or conflict.

For example, consider how "good guy with a gun" incidents are covered by the media. Some would say they're inappropriately suppressed in mainstream news. Others would say they're inappropriately celebrated in niche news or entertainment. I'm not here to say which is right, but both could be considered disinformation. They're trying to shift the narrative toward an ideological position, regardless of actual truth or proportionality.

So no, I don't agree that something must be untrue to be called disinformation. Presenting it that way is itself kind of treading the line.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully disagree. They publicly mocked a trans person, in clear violation of the TOS that all users agree to as a condition of use of the platform. They were then temporarily suspended, as clearly laid out in the TOS. Twitter says "Hey, if X, then Y." Babylon Bee says "Yeah, ok." Babylon Bee does X, and experiences Y. They are not victims, and there is no "violation of free speech" here.

Lots of people are publicly mocked on Twitter everyday. What makes "trans" people so special?

I mean, if you purposefully misgender a cis person on Twitter, the same rule applies. Not sure what your issue is
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