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Welcome to Hell, Elon

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Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#211

Post by mikkergp »

ilyt wrote: post #198
mikkergp wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is advocating against fundamental freedoms and how do you think they'll get the short end of the "companies are allowed to do whatever they want" stick?

> how do you think they'll get the short end of the "companies are allowed to do whatever they want" stick? The companies they defended by going "it's private company, they can do what they want" (which I've seen a lot every time someone is criticizing what the big social media company is doing, especially on Reddit) will do what doesn't benefit the group that defends them.

Which companies were defended and for what? Those companies are going to seek retribution towards their defenders, why? I see a lot of Conservatives defending twitter right now, you think Musk is going to go after them?

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#212

Post by nemo44x »

ilyt wrote: post #155
nemo44x wrote: post #46

I'm betting that something like the Google Circles gets implemented but at a higher level. In order to engage with certain people you have to be a member of certain groups/circles or not a member of certain circles/groups. These groups would be moderated by the people that run them. So instead of having Twitter pick and choose who is allowed on the platform, you crowdsource it to the people who want to moderate their…

> or not a member of certain circles/groups. Don't think that works when you can just make another account if you do not want to be associated with something on your main one.

Differentiate between a verified account and a non-verified. Could even have multiple levels:

1- verified and is not anonymous.

2- verified but remains anonymous.

3- anonymous.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#213

Post by ilyt »

Spivak wrote: post #70
joshstrange wrote: post #34

Can't wait to see that hot takes from the free speech absolutists who have never experienced that first-hand on a platform they frequent regularly. We already know what that looks like, it's 4chan/8kun/etc and surprise, it's absolute shit.

And if you want a more direct analogue if you assume that the problem with 4chan is the culture and not the moderation that the absolute worst most vile Mastadon servers are no moderation to the point where major servers had to just completely blacklist them. If you want to lose all faith in humanity peruse the Gab database dump. No moderation is a loosing game because any platform that offers better moderation will…

Pretty much.

If you don't eject the extremist elements from your community, your community will be represented by them to outside world.

I do wonder what would happen with social media that had only the up/downvote system as soft moderation but without actual moderators smacking people around

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#214

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

throwaway0x7E6 wrote: post #126
joshstrange wrote: post #34

Can't wait to see that hot takes from the free speech absolutists who have never experienced that first-hand on a platform they frequent regularly. We already know what that looks like, it's 4chan/8kun/etc and surprise, it's absolute shit.

can't wait to see the people advocating against fundamental freedoms to finally get the short end of the "companies are allowed to do whatever they want" stick.

You don't want people to learn what a truly open forum looks like instead? More important to hurt?

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#215

Post by ilyt »

hn2017 wrote: post #177
joshstrange wrote: post #34

Can't wait to see that hot takes from the free speech absolutists who have never experienced that first-hand on a platform they frequent regularly. We already know what that looks like, it's 4chan/8kun/etc and surprise, it's absolute shit.

Yup. It's a new 4chan as of now. Musk just ruined a decent service worse than mediocre. https://twitter.com/ncri_io/status/1586007698910646272?s=20&...

When twitter was "decent" It was always a cesspool

Also, lol for twitter having n-word graph in their metrics

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#216

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

ilyt wrote: post #186
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Twitter will stop recommending things? No more trending topics? Because right now it actively tries to spread engagement through topical controversy.

Nope, just option to opt out. "Don't recommend me stuff from category politics"

Is that not already an option?

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#217

Post by Balgair »

joshstrange wrote: post #182
noxer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's absolute shit. So is twitter. At least in the last years it turned to absolute s*it. In mid 2021 I resurrected my old long not used account. I made maybe 20 comments in 3 month before I got "banned". I'm probably not really banned I would just have to remove my last comment but I cant do that because I can not login anymore (which may or may not be related to the "banning"). The post in question was an obvious…

I have no specific love for Twitter but a platform is "absolute shit" if you can't make all the jokes you want to make? I mean is HN absolute shit because they ban excessive language, personal attacks, or reddit-style humor? I'd argue it's successful because it has these rules in place. I also have seen incredibly too much "It's just a joke bro" "defenses" for saying certain things that I have little sympathy for it.…

Another difference is that the bans here are done by @dang and the rest of the mod team. They're not anonymous and they give ample warning in public, typically.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#218

Post by pjkundert »

labrador wrote: post #156
pjkundert wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps Elon has heard of K-Means Clustering, and you haven't... "Solving" content moderation is a losing battle -- there is no way to humanly moderate anything at the rate it can be produced, and Elon knows this. It's insane, so he probably won't do it. But, allowing content to be produced, but making sure no real person ever sees it, until the content producer earns their way into "your" group -- now that can be au…

Oh sure, we can talk about Voronoi cells all day, but the Weber problem indicates an increasing number of k-medians and and a decreasing number of k-medoids. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with the Rocchio algorithm knows that.

So, if you know that Fermat-Weber had fast approximation solutions (O(logn)) published by 2003 (Bose, Mahashwari & Morin), and Rocchio "training" is linear O(|D| + |C|) (where D is the Document set (tweets) and C is the Class set (agents)), why wouldn't Elon maybe be able to use his existing automatic "Labelling" AI workflow to implement something like Rocchio and/or Fermat-Weber?

I didn't meant to be rude; but, you claiming "I've seen no evidence of that" also seemed rude. Sorry for responding "in kind", and not assuming the best.

But, seriously; I immediately thought "Wow, I've seen evidence of that", straight from Elon's latest "AI Day" presentation...

My theory on "why" so many smart Google / Meta / Twitter / ... people have not implemented K-Means Clustering? Because it gives power back to the Agents in the system -- they can't shove their pre-selected content in your face to drive Ad clicks. I think Elon doesn't care so much about that. Or, sees how giving back authority to the agents will eventually attract orders of magnitude more agents / interaction into the system, offsetting the per-agent reduction in Ad revenue.

EDIT: Sorry, O(nlogn) deterministic or O(n) time-random approximations for Fermat-Weber.

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#219

Post by soco »

britch wrote: post #196
CodeSgt wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people that are happy about Elon taking over aren't free speech absolutists in the sense of the term you're using it. Rather they're just tired of blatant censorship some individuals face when expressing an opinion that goes against popular politics of the time. There's a middle ground between allowing literal nazi's to do whatever they want and blatantly influencing discussion on a mass scale by silenci…

Who's being silenced on a mass scale?

Literal nazis? /s

Re: Welcome to Hell, Elon

#220

Post by spacemadness »

noxer wrote: post #210
spacemadness wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but I see this a lot from folks claiming they got banned but they never say exactly why and keep it as vague as possible while claiming innocence.

Did you read the post? I dont know why, they wont tell me. Its just a generic "you violated our rules about offensive content/abuse/self-harm and suicide" or something like that. Then a link to where you can get help if you have some kind of mental breakdown. They actually twisted this as If I was suicidal so they can ban me for my own protection. But I would bet a monthly salary some triggered long time twitter user…

I read your post and it’s still vague as written so it’s not very convincing as an indictment against their policy. I’m not making a claim you are lying, it’s simply not enough to come to reach a conclusion it was all a big misunderstanding.
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