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Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

noyb.eu

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Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#121

Post by Reason077 »

dmitriid wrote: post #120
Reason077 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not necessarily blaming the law, but saying that a new law (or change to the existing one) is needed to ban cookie pop-ups. It’s clear at this point that the problem is not going to go away without intervention. The industry isn’t going to fix itself. Also, it’s unfair to blame developers here. Devs don’t have some perverse desire to create annoying pop-ups. They’re being told to do it by management and legal tea…

> It’s clear at this point that the problem is not going to go away without intervention. The industry isn’t going to fix itself. Indeed. The main problem with GDPR is that enforcement has been slow. And that the industry has blamed its own behavior on the law. As the article shows, the tide is ever so slowly turning. > Ok, so you phrase it more generally: “it is not permitted for consent for tracking cookies to be o…

This would be specifically for tracking cookies (“cookie pop-ups”).

Consent for legitimate reasons is given, for example, when you sign up for an account on a website or conduct some sort of transaction with a business. Just not the act of anonymously visiting a web page.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#122

Post by dmitriid »

Reason077 wrote: post #121
dmitriid wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s clear at this point that the problem is not going to go away without intervention. The industry isn’t going to fix itself. Indeed. The main problem with GDPR is that enforcement has been slow. And that the industry has blamed its own behavior on the law. As the article shows, the tide is ever so slowly turning. > Ok, so you phrase it more generally: “it is not permitted for consent for tracking cookies to be o…

This would be specifically for tracking cookies (“cookie pop-ups”). Consent for legitimate reasons is given, for example, when you sign up for an account on a website or conduct some sort of transaction with a business. Just not the act of anonymously visiting a web page.

> This would be specifically for tracking cookies (“cookie pop-ups”).

Those pop-ups are not "specific for tracking cookies". Because the issue, and the law, isn't about "tracking cookies". The issue, and the law, is about user data.

So, they will replace the question about cookies with question about localStorage. Then about indexed db. Then about storing data in service workers.

Why do you keep focusing on the one issue that is 100% the result of industries actions and pretending it's about the law?

> Consent for legitimate reasons is given, for example, when you sign up for an account on a website or conduct some sort of transaction with a business.

Again. Even when you sign up for something, for some of the data consent isn't required. And for other data consent is required.

I give up. I cannot put it in simpler terms that I already have.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#123

Post by happymellon »

Nextgrid wrote: post #91
happymellon wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have all those things without cookies. And you will need consent, because it has nothing to do with cookies. You need a telemetry banner.

Or you just don't use telemetry?

That's the point, if you don't want to request consent, don't use telemetry.

It has nothing to do with cookies.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#124

Post by Reason077 »

dmitriid wrote: post #122
Reason077 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be specifically for tracking cookies (“cookie pop-ups”). Consent for legitimate reasons is given, for example, when you sign up for an account on a website or conduct some sort of transaction with a business. Just not the act of anonymously visiting a web page.

> This would be specifically for tracking cookies (“cookie pop-ups”). Those pop-ups are not "specific for tracking cookies". Because the issue, and the law, isn't about "tracking cookies". The issue, and the law, is about user data . So, they will replace the question about cookies with question about localStorage. Then about indexed db. Then about storing data in service workers. Why do you keep focusing on the one…

> "So, they will replace the question about cookies with question about localStorage. Then about indexed db. Then about storing data in service workers."

It doesn't matter how they're technically implemented, pop-ups seeking consent for tracking cookies (or their functional equivalent) should be banned.

> "Again. Even when you sign up for something, for some of the data consent isn't required. And for other data consent is required."

We seem to be agreeing on this, not disagreeing! The ban I'm proposing would apply to user tracking data, and would not affect whether or not consent is required for other data.

The fundamental point is that the simple act of visiting a website should not require consent.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#125

Post by ketzu »

Reason077 wrote: post #115
93po wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish that was true. Is it? He just said it was and he's right.

If reject was the default (or it could be set globally, in the browser) then we wouldn't need pop-ups.

> Either GDPR should be updated [...] simply make “REJECT” the default

The point people are making in response to your post is that GDPRs default is reject. Not necessarily the implementations used on a website default.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#126

Post by ketzu »

Reason077 wrote: post #53

Cookie pop-ups are incredibly annoying and greatly harm the usability of the web. Either GDPR should be updated to ban consent pop-ups and simply make “REJECT” the default everywhere, or the consent UI should be moved to the browser where defaults (accept/reject/ask) can be set for all websites.

> Either GDPR should be updated to ban consent pop-ups and simply make “REJECT” the default everywhere

If you ban asking for consent, "reject" is not the default, it is the only option left. If you specifically ban "pop-ups" (or modals), I believe websites will use a standalone page instead of a modal to ask for consent. Same but different.

Re: Where did all the “reject” buttons come from?

#127

Post by mihaic »

93po wrote: post #110
mihaic wrote: post #71

"Reject" being now an options is an improvement of sorts but honestly, the cookie laws in the current form are terrible long-term for privacy. Like recycling plastic, it's a red herring that benefits the big companies, and where everyone else loses. The burden being on the user to manage everything reminds me more of the dysfunctional US healthcare pricing system, where the uninsured have no negotiating power and are…

The issue isn't isn't the law. The issue is every single website tracking you in a privacy invading way. The annoying cookie banners are a side effect of these companies rightfully having to now inform us of when they're invading our privacy.

I think that's the wrong framing. Any one small site tracking me doesn't do anything. It's the shadow profiles that are built by correlating this data accross the web that actually is the issue.

The fact that an information market exists is a legal issue at heart to me.

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