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Why Is Markdown Popular?

russellbeattie.com

11–20 of 179 posts

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#11

> Markdown will never get beyond developers. In my experience it works pretty well for non-developers. I added it to our email client years ago as an alternative to the WYSIWYG editor, and quite a few non-developers liked and used it. Also see Reddit, which uses it. While the Reddit userbase does skew somewhat towards the tech-y, there's also loads of non-tech folks on there. As for the larger point: do I have a grea…

In every company there will be a few who just can't grasp Markdown, but they can't grasp any markup language, and struggle in WYSIWYG editors (like Microsoft Word, LibreOffice Writer, or Google Docs) too (usually not grasping the concept of the document outline created by applying header styles correctly).

The best option there is to simply help them and correct their output (again and again); there is no technological silver bullet to solve it.

Newlines in Markdown are pretty weirdly implemented, certainly! The canonical markup seems to be to make paragraphs by having two newlines (which all tools do), and to have an actual newline within a paragraph by ending the preceding sentence with two spaces and a newline. I'd love it if all tools did that, but an argument raised on the issue tracker of one of these (CodiMD) was that moving to the correct behaviour would break many existing documents where people had gotten used to lines breaking at the presence of just a single newline.

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#12
post #7

The author is mixing up two different things: the concept of markdown (text with a little bit of light formatting mixed into it with easy-on-the-eye syntax) and the existing specification of Markdown-with-a-capital-M (and its flow on effects). The concept is fine. The author may not want to manually write markdown, and may think that no one else wants to either, but they are wrong. It's very very useful to have a way…

> the concept of markdown (text with a little bit of light formatting mixed into it with easy-on-the-eye syntax)

Isn't it markup?

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#13

> Markdown will never get beyond developers. In my experience it works pretty well for non-developers. I added it to our email client years ago as an alternative to the WYSIWYG editor, and quite a few non-developers liked and used it. Also see Reddit, which uses it. While the Reddit userbase does skew somewhat towards the tech-y, there's also loads of non-tech folks on there. As for the larger point: do I have a grea…

> Writing emphasis is just too distracting compared to *emphasis*;

The big thing for me is that Markdown is not just quick to touch-type but also is easy to read in plain text documents. I can easily infer what the formatting means when reading Markdown even without learning it.

I'd be happy with another plain text ASCII format but Mardown just happens to be the one that's been widely adopted.

Being able to keep documents in the same version control system as your code is also a useful tool IMHO. I hate it when management insists on keeping documentation in something like Confluence. If checkout an old version of the code I want a matching old version of the documentation from that time.

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#14
post #12
post #7

The author is mixing up two different things: the concept of markdown (text with a little bit of light formatting mixed into it with easy-on-the-eye syntax) and the existing specification of Markdown-with-a-capital-M (and its flow on effects). The concept is fine. The author may not want to manually write markdown, and may think that no one else wants to either, but they are wrong. It's very very useful to have a way…

> the concept of markdown (text with a little bit of light formatting mixed into it with easy-on-the-eye syntax) Isn't it markup?

No, it is specifically markup which tries to be nice to read even unrendered. Reading HTML source code is rarely nice and that is also a form of markup language.

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#15
> Markdown will never get beyond developers.

Not only is this probably incorrect; but even if it were the case, then:

- so what?

- doesn't this contradict the title lamenting the popularity of markdown?

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#16
post #12
post #7

The author is mixing up two different things: the concept of markdown (text with a little bit of light formatting mixed into it with easy-on-the-eye syntax) and the existing specification of Markdown-with-a-capital-M (and its flow on effects). The concept is fine. The author may not want to manually write markdown, and may think that no one else wants to either, but they are wrong. It's very very useful to have a way…

> the concept of markdown (text with a little bit of light formatting mixed into it with easy-on-the-eye syntax) Isn't it markup?

Yes. In particular a 'lightweight' variant, cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_markup_language

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#17

> Markdown will never get beyond developers. In my experience it works pretty well for non-developers. I added it to our email client years ago as an alternative to the WYSIWYG editor, and quite a few non-developers liked and used it. Also see Reddit, which uses it. While the Reddit userbase does skew somewhat towards the tech-y, there's also loads of non-tech folks on there. As for the larger point: do I have a grea…

I recall one of the Ars Technica journalists saying that they use markdown when writing their articles.

Even things like Twine (interactive fiction text adventures) have a Markdown-like syntax.

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#18
While I agree with many of the points, the proposal that we need a a new standard based on HTML is a bit weird. I guess the author hasn't read the HTML5 spec which is a total monstrosity and suffers from problems similar to Markdown. If you want a document format where essentially every document is valid, you have to specify each and every corner case which gets messy very quickly. Just look at the HTML5 spec. To my knowledge, there isn't even a formal, unambigious Markdown spec. CommonMark comes closest, but it's still a mostly informal spec often based on examples. In my opinion, the best option is still XML, or better yet some slimmed down version without DTDs and with a saner solution for namespaces.

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#19
post #7

The author is mixing up two different things: the concept of markdown (text with a little bit of light formatting mixed into it with easy-on-the-eye syntax) and the existing specification of Markdown-with-a-capital-M (and its flow on effects). The concept is fine. The author may not want to manually write markdown, and may think that no one else wants to either, but they are wrong. It's very very useful to have a way…

The article actually fails to answer the question in the title. It's a long list of reasons the author believes it should not be popular. But it clearly is massively popular. So maybe there's something wrong with his line of reasoning?

Anyway, Markdown emerged out of the Ruby community. So it's not strange that there is no specification. Ruby is a dynamically typed language so, ruby programmers tend to not specify a lot of things like types or schemas. And indeed the Ruby language it self is a bit under-specified. The spec is simply "whatever ruby does is what it does", which sucks for alternate implementations like JRuby. The same is true for Markdown. Whatever the original markdown library does was the spec. And it has since been loosely implemented by others doing their own Markdown derivatives. Like the widely used Github flavor. Which is also a ruby based implementation, I think. So it is similarly under specified.

However, the lack of a specification is not much of an issue since markdown is used by humans to be turned into something human readable with some html formatting. Either it's readable or you fix it. And it's simple enough that any markup typos in markdown are usually not that big of a deal. The main goal of Markdown is to get out of the user's way so they can focus on content rather than formatting.

As for editors. There are plenty of editors that support markdown. Many of them even have live previews. So, it's great for that.

Re: Why Is Markdown Popular?

#20

> Markdown will never get beyond developers. In my experience it works pretty well for non-developers. I added it to our email client years ago as an alternative to the WYSIWYG editor, and quite a few non-developers liked and used it. Also see Reddit, which uses it. While the Reddit userbase does skew somewhat towards the tech-y, there's also loads of non-tech folks on there. As for the larger point: do I have a grea…

> While the Reddit userbase does skew somewhat towards the tech-y, there's also loads of non-tech folks on there.

Every time someone tries to do a list (eg cooking recipes) they fail hard, because both the need to have a two newlines for a one newline and a unnumbered list for a numbered list is thing which surely is out of knowledge of Average Joe. Even consulting a help doesn't help sometimes.

"New" Reddit solved it by having a WYSIWYG editor, but even then things get out of hand sometimes.

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